Remember what our founders fought for this Independence Day

Live forum: http://www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=709

Simon

04-07-2007 12:34:24

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence#Annotated_text_of_the_Declaration
Via: http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/wwdnbackup/2007/07/something-to-re.html

NIMHmaniac

05-07-2007 08:41:29

In these troubled times that we currently find ourselves in, I think that we should all heed the spirit of these lines. With an executive branch that's totally out of control, the time time is now for change as perscribed by these lines from the Declaration of Independence.

Peace :)
NIMHmaniac

Cedric

05-07-2007 15:43:46

Perhaps we could lose political parties altogether. George Washington once said they were the very poison of Democracy.

HolyArrow

06-07-2007 10:31:06

Out of the bold texts in the excerpt, the part I can talk about the most is the fact that "All men are created equal"

From the beginning of the establishment of the country, "all men" meant "white male landowners" from what I learned in history class. The women, and the non-Caucasian Americans didn't even have the right to choose who they feel are the best to govern the country. Think of the segregation period... After almost 200 years America still didn't learn the importance of noticing the unimportance of outer traits.

However, there is one fact about the country that I am amazed about. It's how so many people from other places in the world have travelled there to live a life full of oppurtunity and freedom. But it kinda breaks my heart to see how they found out that everyone was not equal. The Mousekewitz family ended up finding out how there in fact were cats in America...

Anyway, the point is, these immigrants probably heard of the Declaration and heard of what the colonists fought for. There were many many immigrants that weren't able to get what they wanted. Thinking about that, I think that people in history should have followed the words in the Declaration of Independence...

My country, Japan is one of the very few Asian countries (let alone few countries in the world) that has never been occupied by any country because they started to modernize out of fear of colonization. Thus Japan has never valued what the US has (added note: well, it's not like Japan doesn't value it right at all. There's so much of a difference in Japan before and Japan today...). I remember living in New York State when I heard the news that a plane crashed into the World Trade Center. I couldn't believe my eyes in what I saw in the aftermath. The three colors were everywhere... Homes, cars, clothing, stores... I mean everywhere. Because I have a sense of national pride compared to an average Japanese citizen, I always (and still do) envied how Americans were freely waving their flag everywhere. My father had a good explanation to the difference. "Unlike the Stars and Stripes, the Hinomaru (the Japanese flag) was never a flag made from freedom and oppurtunity." This goes back to my previous explanation. To the world, the US has been a land of freedom and oppurtunity.

I remember a similar post topic when Simon wrote how freedom is what Americans fought for... The unalienable rights are "Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness..." How beautiful is that? Wouldn't it be great if a country can be faithful to them? (I'm not American and a few people might think it's strange for me to say what I just did, but please think back to what I wrote above).

I think I've went off topic at the end :? I hope you understand my point. Both internally and externally, the United States of America is the land of "freedom and oppurtunity." Although what I'm saying is kinda "symbolic" and "somewhat exagerated," I just wanted to state what I feel is the beauty of the country that I was raised in for half of my life...

Zohar

06-07-2007 21:36:34

Perhaps we could lose political parties altogether. George Washington once said they were the very poison of Democracy.


And yet George Washington was a Whig, which 'was' a political party.




What people fail to learn in school is the Declaration of Independence was not exactly signed on the 4th. Rather, August 2nd. And one of the delegates didn't even sign the thing until 1781.

Simon

06-07-2007 22:35:10

From the beginning of the establishment of the country, "all men" meant "white male landowners" from what I learned in history class. The women, and the non-Caucasian Americans didn't even have the right to choose who they feel are the best to govern the country. Think of the segregation period... After almost 200 years America still didn't learn the importance of noticing the unimportance of outer traits.

Fair enough. I won't deny that's what happened, though I'd like to think that the founders were a bit more far-thinking than that. In any case, regardless of the original meaning of "all men," I think that the current ideal of extending it to mean "any person regardless of race, sex or creed" is a noble goal that they would approve of. Times change.

However, there is one fact about the country that I am amazed about. It's how so many people from other places in the world have travelled there to live a life full of oppurtunity and freedom. But it kinda breaks my heart to see how they found out that everyone was not equal. The Mousekewitz family ended up finding out how there in fact were cats in America...

[snip]

I remember a similar post topic when Simon wrote how freedom is what Americans fought for... The unalienable rights are "Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness..." How beautiful is that? Wouldn't it be great if a country can be faithful to them? (I'm not American and a few people might think it's strange for me to say what I just did, but please think back to what I wrote above).

I think I've went off topic at the end :? I hope you understand my point. Both internally and externally, the United States of America is the land of "freedom and oppurtunity." Although what I'm saying is kinda "symbolic" and "somewhat exagerated," I just wanted to state what I feel is the beauty of the country that I was raised in for half of my life...


Thanks for sharing that; it's interesting to have perspective from someone 'outside looking in', if you will. I'll be the first to admit, the USA is far from perfect. As long as humans run it, I don't think there's any chance of it attaining perfection anytime soon. ;) But, I do think that sometimes we (speaking of US citizens) forget the price paid for our independence and the rights we take for granted. And since we take these rights for granted, we run the risk of losing them from lack of diligence against people (often within our ranks) that think we should trade them for some false sense of security or safety.

In a very real sense, it feels like we are reverting to a state where people live in fear, and those in power see no problem exploiting that fear to gain more power, and use that power to make some people "more equal" than others. I feel as if we are slowly and inexorably being led down the same path of tyranny that we fought to escape from 200 years ago.

Our government derives its power from those it governs, or it should, at the very least. If our government becomes tyrannical, it will be because we stood by and did nothing to prevent it. That is why I feel it is important to remember what they fought for, so that we can fight for those same ideals as well.