fury of the furries

...Simon, several years ago, at your website, on your list of NIMH links to other nimh related websites, one of the last links on that page used to (i don't know, it might still be there) be a link to an art gallery by some japanese guy that did a bunch of cartoon art on his computer. It was pretty good artwork for the most part, and I remember on the link you said 'some content of rather questionable taste', and I wondered what this meant at first, but then I saw what you meant when I saw that some of the artwork portrayed female animal characters that had the heads of cartoon animals, (such as skunks and foxes) on human-shaped hairy bodies, some of it was rather suggestive and risque, and really creeped me out. There was even an illustration of Mrs. Brisby laying in bed in what appeared to be some sort of nightgown. (shudders)

...about two years later, I saw this crappy tv program on MTV called 'sex 2k' that was entitled 'furries', about these people fascinated with artwork portraying artwork just like what I described on that 'YERF' site, only far, far worse, much of it x-rated. Also, many of them enjoy wearing fuzzy nylon faux-fur "sing-o-gram" animal costumes and going to conventions to socialize, hug, exchange this bizzarre artwork and even have sex with each other (in the costumes) ...ack! they also like to create alter-egos as bizzare humanoid animal characters and roleplay as them.

I certainly think it's strange and a little disturbing, but I'm not saying I condemn such behavior... In fact, I can actually quite understand it. you know, One funny example is of that 'Startfox Adventures' game for gamecube. You wouldn't believe how many of my friends played that game and actually said without blushing that they thought the character 'Krystal', a scantily-clad blue humanoid fox character, was 'hot'. One of my friends said he was constantly turned on by the way her hips moved and by a busty 'jiggle factor', and then said he kept reminding himself that it's a cartoon fox, and felt worried about himself after having these thoughts. I heard about a nintendo gamecube posting that said that 90% of the people that played the game thought Krystal was hot. I don't think so myself, as she's a fictional cartoon character, but I can't blame anyone else for thinking so, as the character was obviously made out to be attractive, designed with the humanoid body of a scantily-clad anorexic white human female, modified to be blue, and with a foxe's head and tail.

I guess I can understand where such a fascination would originate, especially for people that grew up watching and adoring animal cartoons, which I actually enjoyed throughout my childhood in movies such a sthe Lion King and Secret of NIMH, (I never went as far as finding any of it sexually attractive, though, yuck.) ...and people that have alot of stuffed animals in their rooms. (I slept with a teddy bear until I was about 8, and if you're laughing I'll have you know It takes a really secure man to admit that.)

...but I've seen some examples of the "furry" artwork out there, and some of it just goes way too far. (such as the adult kind) ...such depraved fascination is in my opinion a form of anthroprojectional zoophilia, which is just wrong.

...I sure hope no one has ever taken such a ribald fascination with NIMH. that would just totally pervert things and insult the whole beauty of the story and movie. I love the character Mrs. Brisby, but I would NEVER find her sexually attractive. She's a cartoon mouse for God sakes. That's sick.

lisighsli Too late, I'm afraid. I won't say where or how you can find it (I'm trying to forget myself) but there are some sites contaning X-rated fanart/fanfics for NIMH.

That said, there are many aspects to 'furry' fandom; the sexual side is just the most overly represented one, for what I think are obvious reasons--the media loves a scandal. While I agree that some of it goes too far, I'd also say there are some good things about it as well. At the very least, it seems to bring together people of similar interests (animals, anthropomorphic or otherwise) together.

I'll admit, my knowledge of furry fandom outside of where it intersects NIMH fandom is a bit limited, so perhaps someone else can provide a better reply.

I'll admit, my knowledge of furry fandom outside of where it intersects NIMH fandom is a bit limited, so perhaps someone else can provide a better reply.

No, you pretty much got it all down right there. Even though it may seem a little out of control (and alot of times it is), some of the places I've been to that contain adult-themed furry stuff are quite well drawn, while some are based on comedy which can be quite funny. Yes, it does bring alot of anthromorphic fans into the circle as well, which is fun because you get to go to forums and talk about the furry fandom (adult or tame), and even though the sites contains adult furry artwork, the people there are quite nice and fun talk and chat with.

Yes, I admit that I'm...attracted to furry erotica, but I don't do conventions or furry suits or any of that fashion, I just view artwork via Internet. Even though it seems gross or disturbing to alot of people, I like being part of the fandom, however you do get laughed at, spat on, and labeled as a freak when some people find out about it, but hey, I guess if you're going to be part of stuff like this you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Hey, man, whatever you're into, it's cool.

Like the example I gave with the Starfox Video game, just about anyone can find themselves attracted to the imagery of scantily-clad humanoid female cartoon animals, and obviously Nintendo programmers obviously realized this when they designed the 'Krystal' character in the first place.

Don't worry about those jerks that made fun of you or condemned you.
Anyone that says that people that are into that furry stuff are somehow different, unacceptable people, or wierdos with abnormal sexual preferences are idiots. Humans are primates, and primates are sexually aroused by a wide variety of different things, it's not up to any zealous, narrow-minded person to make fun of others for being different. People like that are most likely insecure about their own sexuality anyway. Society needs to be more open minded and accepting of different things.

Thanks, that means a lot.

obviously Nintendo programmers obviously realized this when they designed the 'Krystal' character in the first place.

I don't think they designed her just for the fans, I think they were just having fun like a lot of of other crew designers of videogames do. I see a lot of behind-the-scenes takes of videogames where two programers are discussing the skimpy female character:

Tom: Ok,..heh, this is Peter's design of (insert character here),..,we all agreed to make her skirt a little shorter than last weeks design,....she's hotter that way.

Peter: Hahaahaaa! Totally man, I designed this whole thing last night.

Hmm, touchy topic. You guys should see the character I designed for a school animation project. Outright furry, ask Xavier as I sent him a pic.

I have always been interested in the characters and the art. For a long time I have been doing the character drawings but only since I've been going to school has my work gotten better, and I gained the ability to 3d model.

Anyway, to what Maxx has stated rather well, some of it is out of control and some of it has no place. There is a difference to erotica and what I like to call pr0n. If erotica is done right there can be a lot of taste to it without having to get explicit at all. Pr0n isn't so good.

It took a lot of guts for me to propose my character to the instructor and then do it, so I know what Maxx is talking about. I had a lot of big ideas for the project, using advanced physics engines and all for the clothes. But 5 weeks later and a day before it's due dealing with currupt file issues (the school computers are dirty) the clothes didn't even get done. Woo, well what could I say? The character sang the Hymn of the Faythe from Fantasy X in a ruined temple in front of the whole class. Kinda Greek-like. I guess it did okay, but needless to say there where comments . . .

Anyway what Maxx said is pretty much the same for me. I don't do suits or cosplay (that's a little too strange for me, not even going there) but I enjoy the characters and viewing on the web. Though being that I go to an art school I don't get bothered by it as much, just a lot of wierd looks as they see me drawing in my sketch book.

Also what Maxx brought up about the forums is true. Great places to talk about the art and the stories that any of the characters might be associated with.

Hope that wasn't too wierd. . .

Whoah, that sounds awesome! i wish i could see that thing you described creating. sounds brilliant. I wish I was a creative software wiz.

...In photoshop class in 11th grade, I actually wanted to make a short animation cartoon show (on photoshop animation is ridiculously futile and agonizing) featuring a bunch of older disney movie characters from Disney animation's glory days having a board meeting discussing and protesting the decay of Disney under the corrupt and greedy leadership of Michael Eisner. It was awesome. I sooo wish I had made it, I had it all planned out, but then just when I had started making it on my own just as I wanted to...

The teacher ended up forcing me to work with a partner, and since there were none left, I was paired up with this total idiot, and we had to do something entirely different that was totally stupid, crappy, retarted, and short. ...it was horrible, embarrasing, and the only failing grade on that project in class because i was so dissapointed that I didn't have any spirit or drive in making it and the idiot I was paired up with hardly did anything at all. I don't want to go into the details about it but the idiot I had to work with insisted on having Archie Bunker transmute into Gene Simmons from Kiss, just to give you a clue of how much it sucked.


...Here's the original summary of my originally proposed 'Disney's Demise' cartoon:

...Simba is standing at a podium in a conference room full of other old disney characters preaching about the Greed and Corruption of Michael Eisner, and the decay of Disney since its better days.

...Would anyone like for me to post a screenplay for this animation never finished?

I know what you mean about the group project. The great ideas are never realized and you have to put up the someone elses mediocraty. That has happened to me when I propose an idea and get shot down with little actual consideration. I think your idea would have been better. When I get some time I'll email you a sample.

Yo!

Ya know I knew that somewhere along the line a topic concerning "Furry" art would crop up someday on the forum.

IMO: I don't mind this kind of art. I agree that most of it is quite well done, its all down to taste both of the artist and the viewer.

I take my hat off to those of you who have talked about your interests for I too have observe certain "Furry" material although I tend to draw the line at some "genres" that just go too far(such as some examples of Infantist /AB/DL pix).

L8tr!

Jam.

Grizzly, your project should've been more about animation in general, not just Disney.

In retrospect, yes. It was funny, though, I had Alice from Alice in Wonderland with a rasta hat speaking in a dazed jamaican accent, (who picks up, lights and smokes that talking catarpillar from the movie) Shrek was there for some reason, and Aladdin was the center of Simba's ethnic prejudice. (he kept calling him 'al queda' and asking him where Osama was hiding.)

...in retrospect, probably not something I could have shown to a class without getting D-hall from the teacher, but the laughs would have been worth it.

while your on the subject how do you feel about fan fic with sexaul content in it. i am curius to know how many people are offended by the art yet not the content.

I personally don't like or approve of sexually explicit NIMH art or fanfiction, but if someone wants to do it and host it on their own site, more power to them.

while your on the subject how do you feel about fan fic with sexaul content in it. i am curius to know how many people are offended by the art yet not the content.

That really all depends; Some people write it very romanticlly, and have basic point and actual love behind it all, while other people write it in a dirty, crude way like it was all based around sex, rape etc.

As to the whole NIMH subject, I think it's best to add little traces of it, then fade it out when the "serious" parts come (Freeze Frame).

If I remember correctly there's a few explicit stories on Robin's fanfic site. Darkest Days? Or is it the one before or after . . . ? I don't remember the name but I do remember that it was decently done. The story itself was well done also.

I imagine it can but done tastefully but if done, it must be done maturely and carefully with respect to the dignity of the characters involved.

A long while back I wrote a piece (not nimh related) that in a spot or two did get explicit. I decided to try my hand at it. More out of curiosity I wanted to see if I could pull it off. Though that sort of thing wasn't what the story was about, in the end I felt that it detracted from the story as a whole. I wasn't very satisfied with it in the end.

To Grizzly: lichucklesli While you had Simba get on Aladdin's case, you should've had Aladdin get on Simba's case for killing his dad, and have him add in "who was bit of a pansy."

As for a sex scene in NIMH, or sex scenes in general; I don't really have a problem with it as long as it doesn't get too out of hand and/or as long as you don't just go to that scene. IE.. Justin and Mrs. Brisby are in the market.. A few hours later, Justin and Mrs. Brisby are getting it on.

Yeah, lol.

If you want, here's an excerpt from the 'screenplay' of it.

Simba is standing at a Podium in front of an auditorium of chairs, which many Disney characters are sitting at. Behind Simba is a presentation screen displaying falling stock charts of Disney shares, and a picture of Michael Eisner.

SIMBA: "Michael Eisner has taken the number one venue in children's entertainment and filled it with corruption and greed. Our stocks have fallen significantly in the past fiscal years, our theme parks are atrociously overpriced and greedy, and losing money as well, and ABC's ratings have dropped exponentially since we bought the network out. Michael Eisner is the worst disaster to hit this company's leadership since... since..."

CINDERELLA: "Lung cancer?", she suggests from the audience.

ALICE: "Yeah, mon, Disney used to be a big partier, we used to jam with each other all da time, but now it's all bland and boring, that Mike Eisner's a total nark! Now every time they ask me to come back for a video sequel, they have to test us! I totally agree with ya, Jesus, we should totaly get rid of Mike!"

SIMBA: "WHAT THE-- JESUS? EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU FEELING ALLRIGHT, MA'AM?"

BALOO: "Well, let's just say, she's here with us at this meeting physically, but mentally, she's still deep in wonderland."

SIMBA: "OH, I get it... <chuckles> Alice, I'm not Jesus... Understand? I may be a lion, but I'm certainly not the Lion of Judah..."

ALICE: <seemingly comes out of dazed appearance> "OH! I'm so sorry, mon! I got confused... it's just your beautiful flowing brown hair, mon, that totally threw me off... how do you get it so well groomed, mon?"

SIMBA: <prods and pats at his mane vainly> in infeminine voice: "Oh, well, that would be my stylist, Craig, he used a special perm solution that just works great, I can't believe how well he managed to part it down the middle!"

NALA: "Oh, shut up, you self-absorped tripe, we're not here to hear about your stupid hairstyle!", she yells at him irritably.

SIMBA: "Shut up, baby! ...Not here, not now!", he hisses at Nala embarrasingly.

interesting the reason i asked is my fan fic will eventually cover a more indebt version of the romances of jonathan and elizabeth and i was just curius if people would mind me trying to skip over any graphical scenes. it is not set in stone yet. but i want to pant a picture of thier affection without having anything grotest.

I personally have to dissapprove greatly of integrating adult situations into fanfiction for a g-rated movie and children's novel.

Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh didn't even contain a single swear-word, and I think Robert C. O'brien would be very displeased and disturbed to learn that people were placing his characters in unnecessary adult situations. Of course mice and rats no doubt reproduce sexually, but there's no need in the format of the Rats of NIMH story to include or go into any detail about such matters, because the story is set high above such ribald content.

The Rats of NIMH story was never meant to focus on romance between rats or mice in any way particular. It was about the trials and tribulations of a loving mother and the growing pains and conflicts of an advanced rat civilization. If you want to elaborate on a particular romance between Mrs. Frisby and Jonathan, that's very sweet, if you want to go into an awkward interspecies relation between Mrs. Frisby and Justin, then that's okay too, but kind of soap-opera-ish,

...but I've never, ever seen the need for a sex scene in any form of literature. I find sex scenes disgusting, embarrasing, difficult to read, and overall I really just don't want to know. wether with people in real life, people on tv, or people on the news or in the media, or characters in a novel, Such matters are entirely personal and even from a third person omniscient view such things should stay with those characters, and not be revealed or described to you. I hate sex scenes in novels, and always scroll over them.

...This is just me, though, if you're turned on by some story sequence in a fanfic of hot, steamy rat-on-mouse sex, that's fine with me, write all you want about it, whatever you're into, that's cool.

i agree wich is why i wanted to put up a scene focusing on thier emotional bounds to cultivate the story rather than rellying on physical bound of character for i believe that the type of story i desire can be achieved with a g- pg rating wich is what i am gunning for.

Just do what you think is right, rather than what other people think, don't forget it's your fic. Also, if you're going for a G-PG rating, I suggest leaving out any forms of high sexual behavior.

Maxx is right. It's your story, do what you want. Regardless of what you do there will always be those who dislike it, and those who think it's great. Regardless, the end product will be better as long as you enjoy creating it, and are happy with it once it is complete.

Now... About graphic sex, graphic violence, graphic... Well those two anyway, I have often thought such content works the best when left to the imagination. If you are insistent about putting this kind of thing into the world of NIMH (and I agree with Grizzly on this one, it is something that for me personally doesn't sit very well) then this goes double. No matter how good your writing style, it rarely compares to the imagination of the reader. Play on this; it can work to your advantage. Plant hints, don't tell the whole story, make the reader work and fill in the blanks. It can be far more effective and it can save you the need to write a long, rambling, explicit description, that may very well bore, offend, or just fall short of expectations. Often readers will imagine only what they want to see, or what they wouldn't want to see, depending on what you desire... The power of suggestion is potent indeed.

That said, I reiterate, it is important to stay true to your own vision. Don't be swayed by what others tell you. Accept advice, but you don't have to take it to heart.

Procyon' is right. In my writing I have found that just a simple suggestion . . . the power of a single sentance is grander then a page of adjetives (sp?).

Hey, I was just wondering, have any of you ever had a really wierd dream? Well, of course, pretty much all dreams are totally random, illogical and absolutely bizzarre, but have any of you ever done something totally wierd in a dream where you woke up the next morning kind of creeped out and worried about yourself?

...I had a really weird dream last night, it kind of creeped me out... alot...

...I dreamed that I made out with a badger. :shock: Yes, you heard that right.

...yeah, I know, I'm just as creeped out about this as you are... I mean... ...what the hell?... ...that just came out of nowhere...

I don't remember it very well... I don't remember if I at all enjoyed the experience or not in any way, but I do vividly remember how horrible its breath was, and how sharp its teeth were, and worried about cutting my mouth on them. One thing I don't remember recalling was what exactly its sex was... I sure hope it was a female... that would be alot less worse...

...I sure hope this isn't some subtle sign that I might have "furry" or even zoophilic tendencies... :twisted: I sure wouldn't do something like that in my right mind in real life. yeah, it was just a bizarre dream, you do all kinds of wierd stuff in dreams that doesn't make any sense that you'd never do in real life.

Anway, I just want to let all of you know that by ALL means I am NOT, I repeat NOT attracted to badgers, and would never, EVER consider engaging in any lewd activity with one in real life. I am fully satisfied with the HUMAN female that I am currently dating, and I certainly wouldn't tell her about this wierd dream. (might make her jealous)

Ya, I've had some really weird animal related dreams (not anything like.. that, but still), but they turned out to be not-so-random, and I'm not worried about them anymore. Chances are your dream could be some kind of symbol about something in your life. (sp?) It could also be something else, or could be completely random like you said. I don't do dream interpretation, but if it -really- bothers you, you could go to CPL[=http://www.childpastlives.org/vBulletin/index.php]CPL (children's past lives) and see if they can help.

Well, like I said, I've had some pretty weird dreams too, one of them about being a mouse on a spaceship. When I had that dream, at first I was really worried about it because of the feeling I had when I woke up. But now, not so much.

Hope that helps somehow,

--Tzolkin
ﺶﺞﻚﷲ

...about two years later, I saw this crappy tv program on MTV called 'sex 2k' that was entitled 'furries', about these people fascinated with artwork portraying artwork just like what I described on that 'YERF' site, only far, far worse, much of it x-rated. Also, many of them enjoy wearing fuzzy nylon faux-fur "sing-o-gram" animal costumes and going to conventions to socialize, hug, exchange this bizzarre artwork and even have sex with each other (in the costumes) ...ack! they also like to create alter-egos as bizzare humanoid animal characters and roleplay as them.

I know this is just one small part of your post, but I just wanted to clarify, to it specifically, and the whole thread in general. First off, I want to say consider myself a furry, and am quite happy about that. But that's not the point of my post. In -any- fandom, be it furry or otherwise, you'll find "adult" material or aspects of it. No matter what it is, someone, somewhere will bring their interest in whatever the subject. Somebody will bring aspects of it into the bedroom.

Simon ultimately got the basis of the furry fandom right, Art is a major part of the furry fandom, some of it in a variety of "adult" material, raging from tasteful, right down to vulgar and obscene, all the way down to G rated material (again, something that you'll find not only just in the furry fandom). As for the conventions and fursuiters, Naturally, MTV sensationalized it, just like the one CSI episode (4:06) "Fur and Loathing" did, and focused on the fursuits and sex. In reality, at least what CSI showed, has -never- happened. At least not in a "public orgy" sort of way. Fur Cons are typically about art, and having a fun time with people of like mind. In actuality, fursuiters are generally the minority of the fandom. The last (and first) con I attended had a turnout of about 500 people, only 70 of which were fursuiters.

Also, just because someone is a furry, doesn't mean they are going to, or necessarily want to have sexual relations with the real world version of any animal. That is entirely a different topic. Most furries I've found tend to specifically like the "anthropomorphic" aspect of the fandom, which you'll never find a 'real' anthropomorphic animal in real world. However, most do have a (non sexual) love for real life animals in general.

You might try taking a look at these following links, they do a good job of describing both the fandom, and the people in them than any "mainstream" media can or will. In short, the furry fandom isn't primarily about sexuality, despite popular belief. Over the past few years, Some of the best and nicest people I have -ever- met have been furries, and I can't express how much I appreciate those friends, or the fandom that helped me to find those friends. I don't know what I'd do without some of those friends at times.

"Furry" in general - regarding anthropomorphic art/animation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry[]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry

An accurate description/definition of the "Furry Fandom"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom[]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom

A bit of info on "Fursuits"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fursuit[]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fursuit

I hope this helps you see/understand the real furry fandom, rather than seeing it as a bunch of sex-crazed people with another strange fetish, like common belief, and main stream media tend to think/depict it as.

dude those sites are just wierd.

dude those sites are just wierd.

To each their own. The way it stands, anyone that simply enjoys a variety of Disney movies, or Tiny Tunes, and bugs bunny etc could be considered a furry. The fandom covers a rather large spectrum.

To each their own. The way it stands, anyone that simply enjoys a variety of Disney movies, or Tiny Tunes, and bugs bunny etc could be considered a furry. The fandom covers a rather large spectrum.

yeah but they have people in animal costumes {shuter} come on tell me you at least find that a little creapy. i wont mind if your into thaat stuff but to me {shutter again} it is just creepy :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

To each their own. The way it stands, anyone that simply enjoys a variety of Disney movies, or Tiny Tunes, and bugs bunny etc could be considered a furry. The fandom covers a rather large spectrum.

yeah but they have people in animal costumes {shuter} come on tell me you at least find that a little creapy. i wont mind if your into that stuff but to me {shutter again} it is just creepy :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

And what makes people dressing up in costumes for Halloween, or mascots at sporting events, or for charity purposes not creepy? It's really no different. Especially when related to Halloween. Saying there's a difference just goes to show you set a double standard. In fact, humans have been dressing up as various animals for millions of years. Even the ancient Egyptians, right up to more recent native Americans.

And, like I said before, the people who actually do dress up are one of the larger minority in the fandom. Its not like every furry does, or in many cases, even want to.

When push comes to shove, creepy or not, there are MUCH more unusual "hobbies" to have, and for a lot more darker reasons. From what I can tell from my observations, for a fursuiter, its about expressing themselves, and having fun. In fact, a lot of fursuiters also combine their hobby with drawing attention to charity events.

I get the notion that people are still viewing the whole fandom, and/or the fursuiting aspect as some sort of deviant pastime, when 99.9% of it, save for perhaps the "adult" art, which at conventions are kept out of 'easy' public view, as well as anyone who shouldn't be looking at such material (ie. children). As for what can be found online, its just as easy to find other pornographic, and more so objectionable material, online as it is to find furry related art.

To each their own. The way it stands, anyone that simply enjoys a variety of Disney movies, or Tiny Tunes, and bugs bunny etc could be considered a furry. The fandom covers a rather large spectrum.

yeah but they have people in animal costumes {shuter} come on tell me you at least find that a little creapy. i wont mind if your into that stuff but to me {shutter again} it is just creepy :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

And what makes people dressing up in costumes for Halloween, or mascots at sporting events, or for charity purposes not creepy? It's really no different. Especially when related to Halloween. Saying there's a difference just goes to show you set a double standard. In fact, humans have been dressing up as various animals for millions of years. Even the ancient Egyptians, right up to more recent native Americans.

And, like I said before, the people who actually do dress up are one of the larger minority in the fandom. Its not like every furry does, or in many cases, even want to.

When push comes to shove, creepy or not, there are MUCH more unusual "hobbies" to have, and for a lot more darker reasons. From what I can tell from my observations, for a fursuiter, its about expressing themselves, and having fun. In fact, a lot of fursuiters also combine their hobby with drawing attention to charity events.

I get the notion that people are still viewing the whole fandom, and/or the fursuiting aspect as some sort of deviant pastime, when 99.9% of it, save for perhaps the "adult" art, which at conventions are kept out of 'easy' public view, as well as anyone who shouldn't be looking at such material (ie. children). As for what can be found online, its just as easy to find other pornographic, and more so objectionable material, online as it is to find furry related art.

it dont get creepy until they start adding sex into it dude {shuttter}then it so abnormal that i get creeped out if your into that please i beg of you keep it to yourself no offense but that sort of thing just creeps me out.

it dont get creepy until they start adding sex into it dude {shuttter}then it so abnormal that i get creeped out if your into that please i beg of you keep it to yourself no offense but that sort of thing just creeps me out.

I think you need to pay a bit more attention. Fursuiting isn't about sex. I'm sure its probably happened, but 1: privately, and 2: at most what a handful of times -ever-. For 99.9% of the furrys that fursuit, Fursuiting isn't a sexual fetish. Its a means to express onself, and have some good, clean fun. Not to get off sexually. Though technically, "normal" to each person can be different. Most sexual fetishes come from a persons first sexual experience.

They've even proven so using rats. One they put a small jacket on whenever it was put in with a female rat, while another didn't get a jacket when it was put in with the female. After awhile, whenever the rat that was put in with the female with the jacket on, it would attempt to mate with the female rat, while when he was put in with the female without the jacket, had little interest in copulation.

I suggest you re-read the page at the link below regarind fursuits in the sense of the furry fandom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fursuit[]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fursuit

Especially this part, that I have excerpted from the page:

Sexuality
Those who fursuit for sexual reasons. A small sub-set of the furry fandom does consider a fursuit a sexual item. This view often gives a misconception of what a fursuit is and is used for. A large number of furries do not condone these actions, or if they do - only in private and will never exhibit their work. Most fursuits sold are not made for any sexual activity, and generally hinder it due to the construction.

Overall, a Fursuiter is not much different than a Cos-player found at an anime convention. In fact, Furry Conventions and Anime Conventions are quite similar. Both are primarily about art, and expressing oneself. Though for some reason the fact that the furry fandom focuses on anthromporphic animals, most people assume that all furrys are some kind of clan of sexual deviants. Which is really completely off base. The most intimate actions you'll see publically at a furry con is nothing more than you'd see in a local mall, or any other public place.

okay you got me on a mistake but dont you still think it at least a little strange? people going together to hang out in custumes. i guess i am just not used to the idea. by the way who came up with that stupid rat experement anyway.

okay you got me on a mistake but dont you still think it at least a little strange? people going together to hang out in custumes.

They're just having fun and being part of the fandom. Just let it be.

okay you got me on a mistake but dont you still think it at least a little strange? people going together to hang out in costumes. i guess i am just not used to the idea. by the way who came up with that stupid rat experiment anyway.

You're still missing the point. out of all people that call themselves a furry, only a VERY few of them actually dress up in a fursuit costume. People that dress up are the minority. As I've said before, the last convention I went to, they had over 500 attendees, of those 500, only 70 people wore any sort of costume.

There you go with double standards again, Why is it strange? people dress up as favorite Sci-Fi characters, including aliens, favorite Anime characters etc. People dress up yearly for Halloween, of which some are animals. My sister went as a unicorn one year. Why is that not "strange" she dressed up like an animal by choice, and so do many others.

Heck, Building model air craft, or train sets could be considered "weird" if they like planes/trains so much, why not build/drive REAL planes/trains. Its all subjective. It can be argued that just about any hobby could be considered "strange" depending on who views it. Heck, if a persons hobby was playing baseball, and say someone from the middle of nowhere from Africa came and saw it for the first time, it would be "strange" too. Whether something is strange or unusual or not to one person or group of people is totally irrelevant.

As for the experiment, I don't think it stupid at all. It just goes to show how, and why people can initially get "into" an unusual fetish from past experiences. "Normal" only goes as far as the individual it concerns. Regardless of what the subject is.

leejakobson wrote:
okay you got me on a mistake but dont you still think it at least a little strange? people going together to hang out in custumes.

They're just having fun and being part of the fandom. Just let it be.

Indeed. Who cares what a person does for a hobby, so long as its not hurting anyone.

I've been watching this thread closely and while I think the discussion has been largely interesting, the topic is the sort that can escalate out of control.

I would like to take a moment to review a couple of the forum rules[=http://www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88]forum rules, specifically:

1. Be respectful of others. Remember the old adage: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
   
2. No trolling, flaming or otherwise posting just to get a negative reaction or attention. This goes along with rule #1.[/list:o]
   While I haven't seen any infractions major enough to warrant action, it has gotten very close on a couple of occasions. If any of you feel that you can't continue this conversation without breaking either of those rules (or any other forum rule), please move your conversation off the forum.
   
   Thank you.

well i gues your right now that i think about it it does not sound that wierd and it even does remind me of hallowing i guess we all need a way to escape the reality of our lives sometimes no mater how strange it is to others.

Sorry Simon, I've been trying to keep those rules in mind. If I came at all close to breaking them I apologize, and assure you it wasn't intentional. Im just simply trying to give people a subjective view of the topic, and that its not like the media or public opinion says it is. Just in case, I apologize to anyone i might have been sharp with, or otherwise offensive.

I'm glad my examples at least are reasonable, and understandable. It seems that people tend to use these preconcieved misconceptions about the furry fandom without ever stepping back and taking a subjective look at it. Add onto that what the media has told them about it, and its no wonder people get the wrong idea about what the furry fandom is about.

I profoundly appreciate that you took the time to listen, and try to take a subjective look at the fandom, and at least give the truth a chance. :)

Yes, same here also.

Sorry Simon, I've been trying to keep those rules in mind. If I came at all close to breaking them I apologize, and assure you it wasn't intentional. Im just simply trying to give people a subjective view of the topic, and that its not like the media or public opinion says it is. Just in case, I apologize to anyone i might have been sharp with, or otherwise offensive.

As I mentioned before, so far there hasn't been anything that I would consider as breaking the rules--but like I said, the topic can be controversial. I just don't want things to get too hot and it's way too easy to misinterpret what one says via text only. So, for everyone, all I'm asking is for people to be careful.

I'm glad my examples at least are reasonable, and understandable. It seems that people tend to use these preconcieved misconceptions about the furry fandom without ever stepping back and taking a subjective look at it. Add onto that what the media has told them about it, and its no wonder people get the wrong idea about what the furry fandom is about.

I profoundly appreciate that you took the time to listen, and try to take a subjective look at the fandom, and at least give the truth a chance. :)

You keep using that word. I do not think it means[=http://www.answers.com/subjective&r=67]it means what you think it means[=http://www.answers.com/objective]think it means. ;)

i agree it is kind of a touchy subject and i was focusing on the minorities of furies. but i believe we all meant no offense to anyone on the subject.

i agree it is kind of a touchy subject and i was focusing on the minorities of furies. but i believe we all meant no offense to anyone on the subject.

No offence taken! Its all good :)

However, the minority that does view the fursuit as a sexual item is the minority of a minority group within the fandom. Its likely so small that it might as well be non-existent.

I've seen some really extreme stuff out there and do agree that it ruins it for the other more tame fans of the subject.

My definition of a "furry" is pretty loose and would incompass a lot of people, myself included.

I've seen some really extreme stuff out there and do agree that it ruins it for the other more tame fans of the subject.

My definition of a "furry" is pretty loose and would encompass a lot of people, myself included.

Indeed Dragon, though at least in terms of any "adult" related content in the furry fandom tends to be primarily art, which is usually well kept, and monitored so that it wont be easily seen by a minor. They tend to do a half decent job of keeping what should be private, private.

And you're totally right on "Furry" being used rather broadly to describe all walks of life within the fandom. A person only needs to be as much into the fandom as they want to be to consider themselves a part of it.

Okay, I've stayed quiet on this forum because I don't want to get into any confrontations. Anyways, here goes.

I was what society would consider completely normal until I accidently came across this site. After hanging around for a while and basically rediscovering my love for animation, I joined the forum, albeit hesitantly. Then the MUCK. I have to say it was a life changing experience. After all that's happened, I can see clearly that I am, and always was a 'furry'. Or a fur as I prefer to be called. Four years old, and didn't like any movies unless they had anthropomorphic animals in them. Being part of the fandom has been the best thing that ever happened to me. Just as Xavier admitted, I too admit that I don't know what I would've done without the friends I've made...

Really, all that's required to be considered 'furry' is a love for animation containing anthropomorphic animals, in which case pretty much anyone could consider themselves so if they choose.

Well, that's my take on the subject... Peace^

--Tzolkin
ﺶﺞﻚﷲ

Hey, I'm kind of the same way, throughout my childhood I always had an intrinsic fascination for anthropomorphic characters. Looking back on it it sort of creeps me out, considering all the times I spent daydreaming about cartoon animals and wishing they could be real, or wishing they could be my friends or whatever, and I worry if that was at all healthy, I know it certainly wasn't normal. Although to some degree almost everyone loved the ninja turtles, and they could be considered as anthropomorphs... just not "furry", more like... "herpy" or "reppy"

...but anyway, It doesn't really matter. outwardly, I'm pretty normal, and I wouldn't share my obsession with NIMH with too many people around me, but it's just fine in here. As for that whole "furry" thing, I don't think there's anything really all that strange or abnormal about that, everyone to their own thing, and I'm sure that those "fursuiters" are indeed the minority extreme of a wide, multifacted realm of fascination that is by no means specifically a sexual fetish.

>>Above from other topic.<<

Looking back on it it sort of creeps me out, considering all the times I spent daydreaming about cartoon animals and wishing they could be real, or wishing they could be my friends or whatever

I did too, to the point of wishing I could become one of them somehow. In some ways, I still do. It may not be 'normal' to some, but it's part of what makes me who I am, and how the world views me isn't gonna change that. Again, though, 'normal' is a matter of perspective. :wink:

Seriously, at first, when I first became re-obsessed with NIMH, I was even a bit nervous about sharing that here, so I understand how you feel. As far as fursuiting is concerned, personally I don't see the point, because if I was an anthro animal I'd attempt dressing up as a human. :D

--Tzolkin
ﺶﺞﻚﷲ

As far as fursuiting is concerned, personally I don't see the point, because if I was an anthro animal I'd attempt dressing up as a human.

I see exactly what you mean. I wonder if animals, if we could see into their thoughts, ever think about humans in the same sort of way some of us think about them? Who knows? maybe they see us in a 'zoopomorphicized' image. It only makes sense. Humans are the only animals idiotic enough to see ourselves as somehow so different from animals that we don't even see ourselves as animals anymore, and put ourselves on a pedestal of egocentrism.

In my opinion, I really don't see the whole concept of "anthropomorphism" as rather redundant, because I don't see us as being different enough from other animals for that to really be any big deal, not much more different than if you were to imagine yourself as a different race, or culture or ethnicity.

If you think this idea is crazy, I largely think on a scale of bioethics based on the philosophy of one of my favorite bioethicists/nonhuman rights advocates in the world, Dr. Michael W. Fox, and I suggest you see his website:

http://tedeboy.tripod.com/drmichaelwfox/index.html

anyway, I'm a very bioethical person, and I see the animals as being my brothers and sisters anyway, and I don't really see any point in "fantasizing" about being a nonhuman animal, because being a human animal is allright with me. It is true that humans are highly domesticated and rather "devolved" from our original wild homonid ancestors that lived in a state-of-nature lifestyle, but overall I still feel a deep kinship with all other life, and no need to differentiate. The biggest problems with humans today is our pervasive cultural believe in our supposed superiority and seperation from other life, one which will only further isolate us from living in cooperation with the biosphere, and only lead us down a path of self-destruction, and unfortunately, we will likely take the rest of all life with us to our eventual doom.


...wow... where was I going with all this again? Gosh... I kinda lost my train of thought.... let's see... uh...



well, what my original point was is that I believe that there is no such thing as "anthropomorphic", this is a term that anthropocentric scientists use to criticize people that have compassion for animals that believe that animals are similar to humans. For more on this, here is an excerpt from that article by Michael W. Fox about the origin of the concept of "anthropomorphism":

Anthropomorphizing and Rationalism
At veterinary college, and subsequently doing postgraduate work in ethology (the study of animal behavior), I was confronted by a majority of peers and teachers alike who were purely rationalists. They saw and treated other animals as mere objects, essentially devoid of emotion. This attitude or belief was evident in their behavior toward and treatment of the animals. Any sense of kinship that I felt toward the animals I discovered, to my surprise, to be confined to a small minority of my peer group and a few teachers who became my friends.

So I had few close friends, and felt alienated from the consensus of those rationalists who contended that it was unscientific and irrational to believe that animals have emotions, an inner subjective self, and that to believe so was to anthropomorphize them.

I could not comprehend this taboo in scientific circles of giving other animals the benefit of the doubt when it came to accepting the probability that their subjective, emotional world was more similar to ours than it was different. This taboo confirmed for me the limited worldview of the instrumental rationalist who, instead of empathically anthropomorphizing animals, actually 'mechanomorphized' them, regarding them as machines, unfeeling automatons.

Why would they choose to think this way? Perhaps it was their way to distance themselves so as not to empathize with the animals they exploited in the name of science and the pursuit of knowledge for knowledges sake and feel guilt or remorse, and seek atonement. I felt that the 'objective' scientific method was, as a consequence of this limited worldview, seriously flawed and its applications in human and veterinary medicine, and agriculture in particular, extremely harmful.

I was consoled somewhat at an international ethology conference when my friend and Nobel Laureate the late Dr. Konrad Lorenz in his keynote address advised, "'Before you can study an animal, you must first really love it." I was standing with a group of American scientists who laughed uncomfortably at Lorenz and whispered, "Hes gone soft." A few years later, Dr. Lorenz was quoted by philosopher Helmut F. Kaplan, in an essay entitled "Do Animals Have Souls?", saying, "A human who truly knows a higher mammal, perhaps a dog or a monkey, and will not be satisfied that these beings experience similarly to himself, is psychologically abnormal and belongs in a psychiatric clinic," and is a "public enemy."

That is why I continue to be outraged when I see dogs and monkeys in biomedical research laboratory cages, sows and veal calves kept in crates, tigers in cages and elephants in chains: And when I read articles and books that deny or seek to disprove how similar we are to other animals, especially to dogs, rats, and elephants. If we agree with Lorenz, then a society that condones such incarceration and extreme behavioral deprivation is psychologically deranged. To acknowledge this is a first step toward the recovery of our humanity and the liberation of animals.

Anthropocentrism in its extreme form is manifested as chauvinism and human superiority, as I detail in my book The Boundless Circle. Scientific anthropocentrism, coupled with the taboo against anthropomorphizing other animals, results in a knee-jerk reaction against the concept of animal rights. Rationalists reason that animals cant have rights because they cant be 'moral agents;' they can't have interests or inherent value because no inner subjective emotional and cognitive reference to a 'self' can be scientifically proved. So to the rationalist, they are unfeeling, irrational, instinct-driven automatons, and theres no objective scientific evidence to prove to the contrary. What is subjective cannot be quantified, weighed and measured, therefore, there is no proof of the existence of emotion or soul in animals.

Jungian analyst James Hillman writes:
"Strict science says: since animals cannot express their personalities in language stating what is going on inside their minds, we may not assume they have personalities, insides, or minds. Whatever we attribute to them are our own subjective conjecturesThe scientific fear of falling into anthropomorphizing cuts the human world from the animal kingdom. This fear also leads us to distrust our intuitions and insights, putting a curse on empathy. (italics mine)
Hillman asserts that if we do not anthropomorphize, "we are doomed to read a horse's gambol not as joy but as our projection, a stray dog's whining not as desperation but as our sentimental identification with its plight, a 'coon's thrashing in a trap not as its fear but as our own claustrophobia and victimization." He concludes that anthropomorphism can free us from the prison of our subjectivity and also liberate animals from the arrogant philosophies that hold that consciousness is an exclusively human property and that animals are dumb.

Hillman points out that the term anthropomorphism was
"coined during the heyday of materialist rationalism and is used to deny the inherent intelligibility that species afford to one another." Indeed to the rationalist, nonverbal communication and empathic communion with other species are in the realm of the irrational, delusional and mystical.

Here is the link to that full article:

http://tedeboy.tripod.com/drmichaelwfox/id23.html

Drat! I just had a nice long post ready, and accidentally lost it ligrumblesli Well, Guess I aught to start again. I apologize if it seems a bit rushed lisighsli

Ultimately, I think the 'anthropification' of animals stems from both points made in GrizzlyCoon's previous post. In terms of members of the furry fandom, most feel a very strong kinship to animals in general, though usually one or more specific species in general has a "top spot" depending on the individual's preference. From my experience, a furs preference on what species they take to more than others can range from a spiritual sense, to an emotional, or just simple choice preference.

'Anthropomorphisizing' animals seems only a logical step to me when it's boiled right down. Even though humans and animals, in most cases are a considerably alike in a general sense, the humanoid shape is still one of the more efficient, even considering humans in general are pretty weak in terms of natural defenses, and strength etc. Which is where our strength of ingenuity comes into play. For furrys I think, it's more of a blending of from their point of view, the best of both worlds, hinging primarily on preference.

Another point that is brought to mind is things like Cosmetic surgery, namely gender alterations. There's even less of a difference between male and female, but there are people out there who feel they were born into the wrong body. In this sense, and going from the article GrizzlyCoon posted, who's to say an animal spirit can't find it's way into a human body, and are just better able to express themselves, given the inability to efficiently communicate with humans? Of course, this thought goes back more to the "spirituality" side of things in relation to the furry fandom. Ultimately my point is, people always fantasize about a "perfect" physical being, be it an altered/adjusted human one, or an anthropomorphic animal. Also, humans have a tendency to want to maintain a human likeness, even to the point of trying to create machines (i.e.: Robots) in a humanoid form. In any case, I'd say 'anthropomorphisizing' animals makes as much, if not more sense than wanting to make a machine humanoid.

Anyway, My previous post was much better than this, so I apologize if it's a bit incoherent, I tried to re-write it somewhat hastily (seeing as I didn't want to re-write it in the first place hehe) Also, I've a link to an interesting article on the sociology of the furry fandom that might be of interest. It is an interesting read anyway.

The Sociology of Furry Fandom[=http://www.visi.com/~phantos/furrysoc.html]The Sociology of Furry Fandom

Hi, Xav!

I largely agree with most of what you said, and appreciate your comments. Sorry to hear about losing the larger draft, I know how frustrating it can be to be working on something for a long time and then by some fatal flaw lose everything. When I'm typing something really long that I can't immediately save online, I always highlight and CTRL+C my progress so far so I don't lose everything if the internet suddenly closes or something. But anyway, you covered your points well enough with the second draft, so don't worry about it.

However I didn't quite understand this part:

Another point that is brought to mind is things like Cosmetic surgery, namely gender alterations. There's even less of a difference between male and female, but there are people out there who feel they were born into the wrong body. In this sense, and going from the article GrizzlyCoon posted, who's to say an animal spirit can't find it's way into a human body, and are just better able to express themselves, given the inability to efficiently communicate with humans? Of course, this thought goes back more to the "spirituality" side of things in relation to the furry fandom. Ultimately my point is, people always fantasize about a "perfect" physical being, be it an altered/adjusted human one, or an anthropomorphic animal. Also, humans have a tendency to want to maintain a human likeness, even to the point of trying to create machines (i.e.: Robots) in a humanoid form. In any case, I'd say 'anthropomorphisizing' animals makes as much, if not more sense than wanting to make a machine humanoid.

Could you further elaborate on this? I don't know what point you were trying to make. Are you saying that furries are possibly people with animal souls? Who's really to say, I mean, for all we know we were all a different species in another life. I'll bet that how we treat others in life comes back to us somehow. Perhaps people that are cruel to animals in life eventually reexperience life through the animals they mistreated, you never know. That'd certainly teach them a lesson. And there could also be animals with souls and spirits that were once human, you never know, a soul doesn't have to have the same intelligence, attitude or means of communication in every life, but I believe animal souls are perhaps more farther seeing than ours, I believe that animals have clearer spiritual and emotional sensibilities than we do.
And as for the "perfect" physical being, I don't think there is such a thing at all. We are all imperfect, and the only perfection is when our spirits leave our bodies and enter Heaven and become pure and understanding.

Althought these are largely a spiritual/religious type issues, but I'd like to hear what others think. I'm mostly Christian, but I have alot of other integrated Native American beliefs and have no firm doctrines or dogmas in any particular thing.
But whatever the circumstances, there is no reason why we should be chauvinistic or subordinating towards animals, we should treat them as would ourselves, as other people with rights, feelings and interests.

Anthropomorphizing is a good thing, because it is a way of being very apathetic towards animals, by wondering what it would be like if we were them or they were us.

. I'll bet that how we treat others in life comes back to us somehow. Perhaps people that are cruel to animals in life eventually reexperience life through the animals they mistreated, you never know. That'd certainly teach them a lesson.

are you talking about rebirth in animals because i dont think that any animal would fit some people. if you have to relive the consiquencies of your actions then you must be ready to take into affect that those action must be repeated. and thus the sicle of suffering would continue. i dont believe that fate would be so cruel for i believe in balance for every thing bad that happens there must be good in it.

I see what you mean. I guess I didn't literally mean reincarnation as the animal and a repeating cycle, I just mean one day they'll see how all the choices and actions they made affected others in their life, and if they did anything to hurt someone intentionally, then they'll feel that person's (or animals) pain and suffering and despair in the guilt and regret of their actions. Then they will learn their lesson.

Who's to say what animals and what people wouldn't "fit" each other? Why do you think some people are so wierd, while some fit in a "norm" while some can't even fit in at all and are considered "crazy"

Yes, there is a good side to everything, but I don't believe that there's anything good to something that's totally bad. Did that make any sense?

GrizzlyCoon Thanks. Sorry for the confusing portion, I forgot to add in the lead up explanation to those thoughts. I was referring to potential future genetic alteration to make humans more animal-like, or animals more human like. In effect, one way or another creating a "real life" anthropomorphic being. What the jist was, that yes, animals and humans are already exceptionally close biologically already, but in this day in age, body appearance is becoming more and more a thing that can be adjusted to fit ones personal definition of a "perfect" body, and I doubt that "closeness" would make much difference to a person wanting to be an anthropomorphic animal, using the gender alteration as an example, since there's less difference between male and female, than there is between human and animal.

As for the furrys being people with animal souls, some would say yes, some would say no, while some would say "other". What makes a person a fur is a very broad spectrum of things, and will usually differ considerably, or even very slightly between person to person. Being a furry is really self-defined for the individual, not someone that specifically fits into a rigid set of "rules". It could range from someone that feels they have an animal spirit, or have some strong connection to the overall spirit of an individual species of animal, making the furry fandom more of a spiritual/religious thing for an individual, to simply just having a love of "anthropomorphic" animal art, or animation/cartoons, such as bugs bunny, and an array of others.

Heck, one could consider them self a furry just for being deeply interested in the characters of Secret of NIMH. It also doesn't have to be one specific thing, but an array of reasons a person considers themselves a furry. Being a furry is really something only individuals can define themselves as. For example, there are some who are very interested in NIMH, and they could easily call themselves a furry, though I know a few who don't consider themselves furry at all.

In regard to your latter points GrizzlyCoon, if one's spirit did get "reborn" as LeeJakobson mentioned, What if a person's spirit did come back reborn into an animal body, and what if, a degree of their human intelligence/perception came along, but it was simply the body that didn't allow for the communication, namely verbal communication. I for one have met many animals who have been exceptionally intelligent, or perceptive in terms of "understanding" what a human says/wants/needs to a point where its almost uncanny. I'm not saying rebirth like that is a definitive answer, but it is fun food for thought.

Hope my elaborations help a bit, and hopefully answer more questions than creates. I admit my head isn't entirely coherent today, so hopefully my thoughts are.

Who's to say what animals and what people wouldn't "fit" each other? Why do you think some people are so wierd, while some fit in a "norm" while some can't even fit in at all and are considered "crazy"

no i was not saying people were wierdi am talking about those who seem to be pure evil {if such a thing exist} such as hitler, sadam, any person who commits crime on children. i believe there is good in everyone including these monster i believe that they burried thier own good so it could not be seen.

Hey hey hey, I've had an idea for a while, but I thought it was stupid and crazy, but I want to hear what you guys think about it.

Allright, back on the subject of the whole furry fetish thing in general, I thought about it, and it's obviously rooted in some human sociomentality, wether having a dissatisfaction in your own outer appearance, species, whatever, or from a great fascination with the appearance/spirit/soul of other species. I don't know what it's all about, but I came up with an idea for a new "fetish" similar to the furry fandom/anthropomorphic fascination thing, only one difference:

Instead of celebrating other animals or anthroprojectionizing animals or zooprojectionizing humans, it celebrates specifically the human form, only not in any sense that is either human, animal, or any outwardly identifiable organism whatsoever.

I suppose some of you may have already mentioned an effect similar to this, mechanizing the human or animal form, or being "mechanomorphic".

However, my idea is different. I'm not talking about robots or machines or any soulless inanimate object, for my idea is to have all the intrinsic, spiritual, soulful and emotional features of humans/animals, only hidden behind a faceless mask.

Okay, stay with me if you think this is crazy and nonsensical...

Did any of you ever take a great fascination not only in cartoon animals when you were younger, but also in body suits, such as those of the power rangers, or any other namable character identifiable only by a costume involving a shaded visor motorcycle-helmet type gitup, so that you never saw the person's face, and thereby only judged and liked the character by his/her actions, deeds, attitude, wisdom and perhaps voice, but never by appearance?

Okay, so you're thinking what the hell is my point? Think about it... What if there was a whole fetish/whatever you want to call it, involving the human form, or if you like any form, even that of an animal, only shown in spacesuit/headgear bodysuit form?

Do you like the look of the character from Halo, any sort of spacesuit character, power rangers, motocross suits and helmets, whatever,
what if these people got together at conventions similar to furry conventions wearing these suits, so that they never even saw each other's face, but got to know each other and enjoyed each other's company, judging each other only by their character, but never by their appearances? Wouldn't this in a way be an enriching experience? In a way, if you got to know women that wore these suits as well, and you never saw their face, but got to know them and get to like them at first only by their interests and values, wouldn't this improve humanity by blinding us of our biases in appearance and supposed beauty?

At the end of these conventions, perhaps all the people, after getting to know each other, could all finally take their motorcycle/space helmets off, and only then could they see each other outwardly, but by then they would already like each other well enough to not let appearance affect their judgement.

This is a crazy idea, but what if an animal were wearing such a suit as well, such as those custom radiation suits they outfitted for dogs to protect them from chemical weapons in World War 2, or for instance if they were to outfit animals with spacesuits as assistants to astronauts exploring other planets? How would you judge the animal? Perhaps this would be the most effective way to cure specist bias or prejudice against other animals, and if they're just a slightly differently shaped bodysuit organism to you, you'd only judge them by their emotions and attitude underneath, and most animals are easily capable of being outwardly friendly and helpful to humans if raised by them.

In a way, this would be celebrating all that is good in humans, and focusing strictly on that, not on human biological appearance. It would be very similar to the main inherint focus of furry fandom, only it wouldn't judge animals/humans/anything by outward appearance, but only by the soul that lives inside the suit and behind the helmet visor.

Also, I just like those visor type helmets and body suits that hide human appearance behind a futuristic, mechanized, unhuman form, and have a strange fascination for them. I've actually been wanting to get a motorcycle helmet just for that reason. Yeah, I know that probably sounds extremely wierd to all you, but everyone to their own thing.

one watch your language "i dont want any one in trouble with simon"

rule: 3 Do not post obscene, excessively violent, pornographic or otherwise

offensive material

to the forum. Remember, I'd like this place to be at least somewhat "family friendly."

2. i agree we all should be blind of apearance it would be the perfect way to end biases but it would also be near imposible because people would all have to be the same and even then people would still clam they are better than every one else.
3. why di you double post?

one watch your language "i dont want any one in trouble with simon"

Thank you for encouraging people to follow the rules. However, I am the one that will make decisions in regards to foul language or other objectionable content. If I deem that a post contains foul language, it will be edited and the author sent a warning. If there are repeated abuses, more serious action will be taken. But it is not grounds for automatic banning or the like.

So, while I appreciate the thought, I'd prefer it if you left the enforcement of the rules to me (and anyone I may choose as moderator). I monitor the forum closely, so it's highly unlikely that anyone would get away with breaking the rules. If you, or anyone else, feel that a rule has been violated, you are free to contact me privately with your concerns. But please don't post them on the forum.

I'm sorry, where did I use innapropriate language? I don't recall typing any obscene words at all.

If you were nothing but a talking spacesuit to someone, do you really think there would be any rationality in deeming yourself superior to another talking spacesuit? You could, but none of the other spacesuits would believe you. That would be cool to hang out in public with entire groups of people like that, it would so change the way humans interact with and identify each other.

If anything, it would be a very fascinating experiment in human sociobiology. It would also be like an episode of Red vs. Blue, generally, I think it would be awesome.

...and for your information, the double-post was a loading error, and if Simon wishes he may delete one of them.

No offense, but in the future please try to be a little more polite and not so imperative in your responses. like Simon says, please leave rule enforcing to him. I do not want any of us to begin getting upset with each other, so please let's try and stick to a guideline of strict ethics and etiquette while sharing ideas on this forum. Thank you.

and for your information, the double-post was a loading error, and if Simon wishes he may delete one of them.

No offense, but in the future please try to be a little more polite and not so imperative in your responses. like Simon says, please leave rule enforcing to him. I do not want any of us to begin getting upset with each other, so please let's try and stick to a guideline of strict ethics and etiquette while sharing ideas on this forum. Thank you.

sorry yesterday i was a little irratable ishould have left simon to deal with the rule breaking i know it was rude of me to post it but yesterday i had a little bit of a bad day and i was out of line. about the double post i meant no offense hope you are not angrie i just wanted to know what was the reason you did it and how to avoid that glitch. sorry about comming on so strong yesterday but what i meant was if every one was a space suite then they would either have to all be the same at all times age included or thier would still be discrimination.and then thier are the people who think theyare better than every one else no mater what. aka the stuck up people.

I skimmed this thread and I kind of lost what the topic was specifically about. Was it about how some how you should feel something is wrong with you just because you might be attacted to a cartoon character and even worse if furry. Or is it more when if you are insanly obessed that you should be worried. And even with that it has nothing to do with real animals, as a furry will look at any real animal the same way as any regular person. Someone could just happen to become attracted to furry drawings, as how some people have foot fetishes, but atleast the furry thing doesn't go beyound casual art view except those other people like the MTV video which are a minority. Just watch Insomniac on Comedy central and you see even more crazy things like clubs invloved with torture fetishes and such.

And being attracted to cartoons, 3D and what not. How is there anything wrong with that. If it was drawn or modeled to have the right curves your brain will take over. Like Jessica Rabbit who said she couldn't help that she was drawn that way. I guess some must have thought that singing number with Jessica in Roger Rabbit was disturbing.

And the comments about Ken Singshow's artwork. What was so upsetting about seeing animal heads on human bodies with fur, aka furry art or just about any cartoon. I'm guessing this person must think there was something terribly wrong with Walt Disney and Disney films. Like Robin Hood as a good example.

And the Costumes, yes I guess it can be wierd if you only think about the sexual stuff that only appears on the news like that scary MTV segment. I look at it as someone roleplaying, as long as it doesn't go in that wierd direction. If you still find costumes freaky when being totally innocent then I suggest you never go to disney land and such as you might break down seeing people in Mickey and Minnie costumes actually acting like them. And stay away from Minnie, I hear she's a flirt especially if you have anything with her photo. If you were to blush would that mean your a sick person?

Speaking of costumes, this will freak some of you out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2312&item=6385662025&rd=1

I started a thread for that auction here:
http://www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=189

Oh, I remember watching one of those recent cheesy trio girl spy shows a year or more back. At onepoint they followed a guy to a place with a ballroom full of people in furry costumes, rabbits and such. They were all dancing and at one point togethor with hands on each others shoulder hoping forward. Nothing sexual about it but I will say it was freaky, especially wiered out the spy girls (this was real video show), but there could be much worse things people can get into than that.

Dude, you're totally bumming me out... I was never trying to put people down that have a fascination with furry fandom, like I've said, I have a subtle fascination with it myself, but mine is more directly related with my spiritual kinship with all life and reverence for animals than just a "fetish" or "fandom" or whatnot.

We all like different things, so whatever you're into, that's cool. But more recently I was bringing up the topic of an all new idea I had with being fascinated with spacesuits that depersonalize people and create a fascinating new social environment, and I was really more interested in hearing what people's thoughts were on this idea.

We all like different things, so whatever you're into, that's cool. But more recently I was bringing up the topic of an all new idea I had with being fascinated with spacesuits that depersonalize people and create a fascinating new social environment, and I was really more interested in hearing what people's thoughts were on this idea.

i agree with grizlee coon every one should be aable to express them selves so long as they respect the wishes of other people to not know about it or make them join in. if those two rules are kept every thing is cool.

GrizzlyCoon,
Your 'idea' isn't as unique as you might think; there are a few 'adult' fetishes out there that pretty much focus on that exact aspect, using things like masks, and to the more extreme, gas masks and such. Of course, it ties in other 'fetish' interests, but it's also still part of the "dehumanizing" aspect. The only problem is though, as I think it was Tzolkin said, unless the suits, whatever type they may be, were all identical, and obscured every detail about the person within, you'd still find people forming biases. For example, it would be obvious between a youth, and an adult, male, female, skinny, overweight etc. Humans are -always- making snap judgments and assumptions, unless you can make every unique person/body exactly the same in appearance, and dimensions, heck, even in sound of voice, you'd still have assumptions made. As it were, in a sense, you're probably already taking part in that "dehumanization" by conversing with us even on this forum, all you can see of me, or anyone else is text, and that comes straight from the mind attached to the keyboard. The only way one could effectively do what you're suggesting in a real-world way, is to blindfold, or place everyone in a dark room, and normalize all voices to be the same, remove -ALL- stimulus between people.

As for the furry fandom, and the fursuiting, I don't think its so much the "Dehumanizing" aspect, but more along the lines of role playing, I know a few fursuiters who have multiple fursuits, each of which has their own "personality" as it were. Some suits are "avatars" for the person, and are used to further express their self, or furry persona (often referred to as a "fursona"). In reality, fursuiting is more akin to cosplaying at an anime convention than filling some 'fetish' want or desire. On another note, some people fursuit primarily for charity reasons, bringing joy to children, or raising funds for good causes.

TimothyB,
I agree with most of which you posted earlier, it seems when it comes to the furry fandom, people have something of a double standard. It's okay to collect mickey/minnie mouse figures and plush toys, and potentially even dress up for Halloween as those characters, but it's "creepy" to dress up as an anthropomorphic animal that you like, or have some "spiritual" connection with?

In general, when it comes to any sort of sexual 'fetish' I tend to somewhat agree with the Gil Grissom character from the TV series "CSI" when he supposedly quoted Froid, saying, "The only unnatural sexual behavior is to have none at all and After that its just a matter of opportunity, and preference." how accurate this Froid quote is, it still maintains merit. Ultimately, to me, it boils down to "to each their own."

Well, I think that's about all for now. Sorry for the lack of posts from me recently, for whatever reason I'm not getting the email notifications when a reply is posted to threads I've posted in.

Its really a sad thing that the Furry Community is being struck at like this. CSI, MTV, Vanity Fair are exaggerating the worst parts of the fandom, which are extremists. I myself am a Furry, but I don't do all that stuff they depict. That's just X_X BLEH. >.> I'm a normal human being who likes Furry characters, that's really what its about.


Side note: Of course the material I write in my own novel which does use Furry characters is adult oriented however that is not the focus of the story. I try to make a satire of humanity basically, with it.

Its really a sad thing that the Furry Community is being struck at like this. CSI, MTV, Vanity Fair are exaggerating the worst parts of the fandom, which are extremists. I myself am a Furry, but I don't do all that stuff they depict. That's just X_X BLEH. >.> I'm a normal human being who likes Furry characters, that's really what its about.

Side note: Of course the material I write in my own novel which does use Furry characters is adult oriented however that is not the focus of the story. I try to make a satire of humanity basically, with it.

You have to remember though, sex and scandal sells. They're not out to paint an accurate picture, just take what already exists, and make it as profitable as they possibly can, which is generally -not- the people involved in the areas that they depict in media. It's all about selling to the biggest portion of the population, which is unfortunately generally not the interest group from which they get their ideas. It all boils down to the almighty dollar.

Just because something is 'adult' doesn't mean it's bad. There is plenty of adult material out there that is respectable; the defining line is when it crosses the line from being "tasteful" to "pornographic"

to all who i have argued about the furry fandom in the past. i apologize i missed judge it because i prejudged it based off csi and a picture i click off one of the links. i know now that it was not the sexaul conduct in the fandom you were interested in but the giving human traits to inhuman objects. i have been meaning to send this for a while and wanted to send it befor i got cut from the internet. well see you after summer.

to all who i have argued about the furry fandom in the past. i apologize i missed judge it because i prejudged it based off csi and a picture i click off one of the links. i know now that it was not the sexaul conduct in the fandom you were interested in but the giving human traits to inhuman objects. i have been meaning to send this for a while and wanted to send it befor i got cut from the internet. well see you after summer.

No sweat, It's nice to see someone that can take what they see on TV with a grain of salt. The fandom isn't specifically about applying humanoid traits to animals, etc. It really depends on the person. There's no one set "rules" that makes a person a furry. In the end, its a matter of choice whether a person is a furry or not, what makes a person a furry can be as diverse as the people in the fandom themselves. Hope you have a good summer!

I gotta admit, some of this "furry" stuff is starting to grow on me.


I've been looking at Dark Natasha's art lately, and perusing through her interesting artwork website. She's a brilliantly talented artist that perfectly captures the look and feel of many exotic animals, and adds an interesting anthroprojectional touch to them. Some of it is definitely too far prurient and erotic in nature for my taste, and I won't dare even go into the adult section, nor am I curious to know what's in it, but her mostly harmless 'anthros' section has lots of interesting and rather cool artwork, my favorite being the samurai raccoon and also the white indian wolf warrior. I wish she'd do something related with NIMH, perhaps not the movie, because her artwork isn't in a cartoonish style, it's almost photorealistic oil paintings and sketches. I'd like to see her take on the novel Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH and its characters. I wouldn't ask her, though, she's probably very busy, from what I gather she's making a killing off her furry artwork portfolios.

There are quite a few very talented artists that do "furry" work, some of which aren't even furries themselves. One of which comes to mind is Tracy Price www.greatwarriors.net[]www.greatwarriors.net. another that comes to mind is a fur that goes by the name "Goldenwolf" http://www.goldenwolfen.com[]http://www.goldenwolfen.com. She (I believe) has some extremely beautiful works of art, most of which is "clean" or at least 'tastefully' done if its more exotic . Though, I do know a few VERY talented artists that tend to do more "erotic" and even, I suppose some could consider "Pornographic" furry art. There's really a broad spectrum, and great art can be found in just about all of them.

There's also a guy from Japan who goes by the name of Karabiner and is said to be one of the greatest digimon/anime fan artists out there(I suppose furry too). His art is mainly based around digimon and other "big monster", "giant robot" and sometimes theatrical animated movies and shows from where he comes from, and I must say, his sketches and colored art are very well-made, he even gives the characters a more shaded and realistic look (still with a dash of it's cartoony design).

However, due to the thousands of demands on making hentai(art porn) versions for his art, he got the feeling that everyone only liked him for his hentai alone and didn't care for who drew it or the work it took to make it, so he vanished, along with his art from the internet for a while. Now, he's returned after some apologies and convincing to keep making art, and now being well-respected.

Here's the site, but be warned, though his art doesn't contain real nudity or any extreme bodyparts, it still implies a lot, other than that, it still clean. At least this is all from his art section, his BBS boards on the other hand mostly contain some rather extreme artwork, so please stay clear of them:
http://www005.upp.so-net.ne.jp/karaby/index.htm

Hey, thanks! that Goldenwolfen artist is awesome, she's even better than Dark Natasha! Her art is great. That's the kind I like, the kind that looks real, not cartoonish. All the cartoonish furry art reminds me of some sort of perverted adult episode of 'Tiny Toons', anyone remember that show? The blue bunny and that pink girl bunny, neither of which wore any pants? Good times... good times...

...but if you want to see dark natasha here's her website http://www.darknatasha.com I like the werewolves and anthros section teh most, but be careful, there is some creepy erotica stuff lingering around in every different section of it. Fortunately, it's all thumbnails, so you can be forewarned which images you definitely don't want to see enlarged.

That's the kind I like, the kind that looks real, not cartoonish. All the cartoonish furry art reminds me of some sort of perverted adult episode of 'Tiny Toons', anyone remember that show? The blue bunny and that pink girl bunny, neither of which wore any pants? Good times... good times...

Well he's got an account on VCL that has a lot of his un-cartoony stuff, but I was afraid to post it because even though he has an "adult" section and his "average" section, he still has some art(though not quite extreme) mixed in with his clean stuff. However, I guess I can just post links to the clean pictures instead of having you go through his gallery. It may not be as exotic, he prefers to go for the futuristic, miliatry look instead.

http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Den/KarTank3.JPG
http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Den/KarDog02.JPG
http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Den/KarWolf5.jpg
http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Den/KarRf138.JPG
http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Den/KarAnubis1.JPG

...but if you want to see dark natasha here's her website http://www.darknatasha.com I like the werewolves and anthros section teh most, but be careful, there is some creepy erotica stuff lingering around in every different section of it. Fortunately, it's all thumbnails, so you can be forewarned which images you definitely don't want to see enlarged.

Yes, I've been to her site before, her art is by far one of the best peices of work I've ever seen.

I gotta admit, some of this "furry" stuff is starting to grow on me.


I've been looking at Dark Natasha's art lately, and perusing through her interesting artwork website. She's a brilliantly talented artist that perfectly captures the look and feel of many exotic animals, and adds an interesting anthroprojectional touch to them. Some of it is definitely too far prurient and erotic in nature for my taste, and I won't dare even go into the adult section, nor am I curious to know what's in it, but her mostly harmless 'anthros' section has lots of interesting and rather cool artwork, my favorite being the samurai raccoon and also the white indian wolf warrior. I wish she'd do something related with NIMH, perhaps not the movie, because her artwork isn't in a cartoonish style, it's almost photorealistic oil paintings and sketches. I'd like to see her take on the novel Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH and its characters. I wouldn't ask her, though, she's probably very busy, from what I gather she's making a killing off her furry artwork portfolios.

Cool beans, I like her stuff, too! There's another artist who does well in the same style that you should check out; Goldenwolf @ http://www.goldenwolfen.com/ She's neat.

Lanywhoodle, I just got here, but I had a feeling there'd be a thread about this here. Neato and all. I've always been intrigued by a lot of it. It is kind of sad that you do have to be extra careful when looking for more info about "the fandom", but I think that's a given in any realm of society. Extremes in any form aren't good, and to be truthful neither are compromising inbetweens that rationalize everything.

This discussion has been quite civil compared to some I've seen. I'm impressed. Maturity is good to see. liNoddlesli You know, I think my favorite anthropomorphized characters are those from Watership Down, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of N.I.M.H. and maybe some other tidbits. Good times! Y'all have fun.

- Tort

Hey, thanks! that Goldenwolfen artist is awesome, she's even better than Dark Natasha! Her art is great. That's the kind I like, the kind that looks real, not cartoonish. All the cartoonish furry art reminds me of some sort of perverted adult episode of 'Tiny Toons', anyone remember that show? The blue bunny and that pink girl bunny, neither of which wore any pants? Good times... good times...

...but if you want to see dark natasha here's her website http://www.darknatasha.com I like the werewolves and anthros section teh most, but be careful, there is some creepy erotica stuff lingering around in every different section of it. Fortunately, it's all thumbnails, so you can be forewarned which images you definitely don't want to see enlarged.

Haha! That's what I get for being late. :wink: I guess I thought I had read the whole thread. A toast to my attention span! :lol: Anyway. Yeah, she's cool.

One thing that's crazy about those anthropomorphic characters is that they always have the wrong number of boobs.

...although I've also seen ones that have the right number, and that looks even worse...

I just wish they'd be more accurate to the animal they're anthropomorphizing and not give it unnaturally portubent breasts like humans, it's just wierd to portray them like that. They should only give them a regular body shape more like the actual animal. Giving them boobs just looks ridiculous and wrong.

I prefer anthropomorphic characters that look almost exactly like what the animal really looks like, just modified slightly so that it's bipedal and slightly proportioned to human body shape, but not so much that it just looks like an animal head stuck on a human body. That just looks stupid.

What really makes me nauxious is when the animal's head isn't even accurately shaped, and it's not even an animal's head, just a human head and face with a dog nose and ears jutting out the side of its round human skull like in the goofy cartoons. That just looks ghastly, especially when they try to make it look lifelike. Yucko.

One thing that's crazy about those anthropomorphic characters is that they always have the wrong number of boobs.

...although I've also seen ones that have the right number, and that looks even worse...

I just wish they'd be more accurate to the animal they're anthropomorphizing and not give it unnaturally portubent breasts like humans, it's just wierd to portray them like that. They should only give them a regular body shape more like the actual animal. Giving them boobs just looks ridiculous and wrong.

I prefer anthropomorphic characters that look almost exactly like what the animal really looks like, just modified slightly so that it's bipedal and slightly proportioned to human body shape, but not so much that it just looks like an animal head stuck on a human body. That just looks stupid.

What really makes me nauxious is when the animal's head isn't even accurately shaped, and it's not even an animal's head, just a human head and face with a dog nose and ears jutting out the side of its round human skull like in the goofy cartoons. That just looks ghastly, especially when they try to make it look lifelike. Yucko.

liThinks of a certain Jenny from.... "NIMH 2"...li I know what you mean. Sometimes you get the anthropomorphized character that looks like the regular animal with just a different facial expression, and other times you get a human with some weird alterations. Doh.

I guess to each his own, but I agree with your preference. My tastes run along the same lines I think. Personally, I do think that anhancing or emphasizing the mammary glands of any anthropomorphized creature is just funny. It always makes me either smile or laugh for some reason. :wink:

Hmm, I think that applies to me as well. I get very picky when characters like this are concerned.

I have my style and then I've been thinking of trying something a little different, but not something new as I have tried it before. I just needs a little work.

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I couldn't resist... I just wanted to report that I'm a junior in College now and at my college is an anime club, which I joined, not because I like anime at all, but they're interesting people that I like to hang out with, I made alot of new friends in there, which is something I had alot of trouble finding in college at first. To my surprise, many of the people in that club are into the whole "furry" thing, many of them, some of my best friends, regularly like to draw characters and artwork of the furry nature and some of them even have certain characters which I suppose they consider to be their "fursona".

I've asked them about their interest in it and learned alot about it, even many things which I rather would have gone without knowing, :shock: but it's been interesting nonetheless. I was no doubt surprised simply that this is such a common thing that there were people in my own locality that were together in one place that shared an interest in it. Obviously, this "furry" thing is alot more common and widespread than I previously thought. This has been good for me, because I've for years drawn anthropomorphic animal characters, I never wanted to admit they were "furry" simply because of the nefarious reputation given to that genera by such stilted portrayals on MTV and CSI, which made everyone think it's some sort of form of human-animal-hybrid bestiality. As I have learned much of the genera has absolutely nothing to do with prurient interest at all. So I suppose the drawings I've been doing for years are sort of "furry" in the harmless g-rated sense. I don't do anything erotic or meant to be attractive in any way. :? I just don't like the way that even sounds... but I showed some of my drawings to my anime club friends and they really liked them and I even had to make a few drawings for some of them. I have never had that much appreciation for my art from anyone, most other people have always looked at my drawings with kind of a wierd expression, and seeing people that were so into it really inspired me to continue drawing, as I have not done in a long time.

I suppose this sort of concentration of obscure interest can be expected in an anime club, because some of the wierdest and nerdiest people on campus all seem to be in it, (I don't mean that in an insulting way, they say it all the time themselves) ...and fortunately, it's not just about anime, it's mainly about hanging out and sharing all kinds of obscure nerdy interests. One of my friends is into the ancient medieval craft of chainmail, and is currently teaching me and helping me to begin work on my first hand-woven black steel chainmail shirt. (it's gonna be VERY heavy when it's done, whenever that will be, probably like never, or at least like 8 months) ...Very interesting group of people. Sometimes if I hang out with them for too long, especially if it's a large group of all of them together, they get a little too creepy and annoying and I have to get up and hang out with "sane" people again to get my thoughts straightened back out. :P

Anyhoo, what am I going on and on about all this for? Sorry, I've been so bad about off-topic shenanigans lately, I can't even stay on the topic of this off-topic thread... :D ...My wandering mind... :roll: hope you guys don't mind me prattling a little about my life... at least if that can even be considered a life... :lol:

GrizzlyCoon; I'm glad that you've had a chance to put a 'real' face to the furry fandom, and the people within it. Sure, there are some who enjoy a bit more of an adult side, or perhaps even a more 'perverse' side. However, aside from the art, pretty much all of the 'adult' and 'perverse' nature are done, and kept behind closed doors. Even the art doesn't -have- to be adult in nature, and not all furry artists do adult work. Heck, just because one likes 'animal' themed cartoons, or what have you, or do 'animal art' be it anthropomorphic, or not, could call themselves a furry. There's no real defining trait to a furry. It's a chosen thing. In just about all cases, being 'furry' is simply what the individual person defines, and makes it to themselves.

On the other hand, regardless of what 'kinks' a furry friend may or may not be into, deep down most, if not all have been good people at heart. I for one, could care less about a friends interests, regardless of what area they may lay. As the saying goes, to each their own.

As for the anime, I wish there was an anime club in my area. At least one more easily accessed by me. Then again, I wish there was -any- sort of club around my area for any of my interests lid'ohs and eardroopsli

On the other hand, regardless of what 'kinks' a furry friend may or may not be into, deep down most, if not all have been good people at heart. I for one, could care less about a friends interests, regardless of what area they may lay. As the saying goes, to each their own.

That's good to hear. I couldn't agree more. I hope you didn't get the impression that I was being judgemental of people in what I described. Many of the people in the anime club are into some extremely wierd stuff, but I don't care at all, they are nice, friendly people. One of my best friends in the anime club is gay. But he's a really cool guy and not wierd to be around at all. The anime club is cool just because it's so different from most of the college environment, which normally consists of people that just don't pay any attention at all to anyone else, everyone just goes about their own busy way and it was really hard at first for me to meet people or get to know anyone. I felt very alone here at college my first two semesters, but that quickly changed as I started hanging out with the anime club people, who are much more open, friendly, and sociable, and always goofing around.

As for the anime, I wish there was an anime club in my area. At least one more easily accessed by me. Then again, I wish there was -any- sort of club around my area for any of my interests lid'ohs and eardroopsli

Are you in college? I'm sure that if you look you might be able to find some fun, infectious group of wierd, wacky people reveling in their combined nerdiness like that around where you are. Or if not, you can try starting one yourself. Be it anime, scifi, fantasy, video games, dungeons and dragons, comics, whatnot, ...If you start it, nerds will come. 8)

On the other hand, regardless of what 'kinks' a furry friend may or may not be into, deep down most, if not all have been good people at heart. I for one, could care less about a friends interests, regardless of what area they may lay. As the saying goes, to each their own.

That's good to hear. I couldn't agree more. I hope you didn't get the impression that I was being judgmental of people in what I described. Many of the people in the anime club are into some extremely wierd stuff, but I don't care at all, they are nice, friendly people. One of my best friends in the anime club is gay. But he's a really cool guy and not wierd to be around at all. The anime club is cool just because it's so different from most of the college environment, which normally consists of people that just don't pay any attention at all to anyone else, everyone just goes about their own busy way and it was really hard at first for me to meet people or get to know anyone. I felt very alone here at college my first two semesters, but that quickly changed as I started hanging out with the anime club people, who are much more open, friendly, and sociable, and always goofing around.

Of course I wasn't speaking on any impression you gave. Just stating my observations and experiences. I think the only time people find 'freaks' in the furry fandom, is when they go in looking for them. But that generally goes with just about anything. People tend to find what they're looking for. Part of why I like attending MFM[=http://www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=390]MFM. Its more like a giant family reunion, with friends, and friends you haven't met yet. It's really great.

As for the anime, I wish there was an anime club in my area. At least one more easily accessed by me. Then again, I wish there was -any- sort of club around my area for any of my interests lid'ohs and eardroopsli

Are you in college? I'm sure that if you look you might be able to find some fun, infectious group of wierd, wacky people reveling in their combined nerdiness like that around where you are. Or if not, you can try starting one yourself. Be it anime, scifi, fantasy, video games, dungeons and dragons, comics, whatnot, ...If you start it, nerds will come. 8)

No, I'm not in college. I should have been long ago, and still want to go, but life hasn't been very kind in regards of letting me pursue my dreams. Hopefully that will change soon, however. As for now, I'm stuck on the outskirts of a small rural area. The closest town is approximately 1,300 population. Not exactly 'club' friendly when it comes to things I'm interested.

I think you're pretty lucky, Grizzly. I'm not in college(on my way to the last year of high school), but the only clubs around the Dayton area are either for religous purposes or debat classes, and they are all full of the 'freaky', angry, racist, and intolerant of others-type of people.:?

It's also good to know that someone has finally made firends amongst Furry fans and didn't run away screaming like most people tend to do.

GrizzlyCoon, i had a similar experience with regard to discovering what it meant to be a furry. i've been drawing animals since i was a kid--realistic animals, anthropomorphic, cartoony, whatever. Actually, Secret of NIMH is what got me started with anthropomorphic animals. Before i got on the net, i'd never heard of "furry." i didn't think there was anything different or weird about my art... anthropomorphic animals are everywhere in movies and TV--Secret of NIMH, Disney stuff, dozens of TV cartoons. Then when i first found the NIMH community online, i started hearing all these terrible things about furries, and of course didn't associate myself with them. Well, after meeting a few furries (most of them old-school NIMH fans, actually) i looked into it more and realized i'd probably be considered a furry just for my art.

Honestly i don't know whether i consider myself a furry or not. Yeah, i draw anthropomorphic animals... i have a gallery on VCL... i've even been to a fur-con where i went around wearing a tail for 3 days XD To me it's just for fun. There's nothing adult or sexual or fetishy about it to me. i'm not part of the "Were" community. i just...like drawing animals. Animal art has so many possibilities, and besides, my people-drawing skills are...well, aren't XD That's about it. Does that make me a furry? i don't know, and i don't really care :)

Most furries i've met online or IRL are nice normal people...or at least, just as normal as non-furries ;) Yeah, i've also met a couple who are...a little sketchy. But all groups have a couple of those. i guess it's all about who you choose to associate with. i don't enjoy X-rated art, so i don't go looking for it. i'm not into any of the fetishy stuff, so i stay away from that too. lishrugsli i think with any community or fandom you can find whatever you want in it.

/rambling :)

I kinda got into an argument with Xavier on NIMHmuck a little while back regarding "furry porn." He thought it was unfair that I was singling out "furry porn" when there are other adult pictures out there that I would think are more weird.

He's right that there would be other pictures out there that would weird me out just as, or even more than "furry porn." But that doesn't negate the fact that I think giving anthropomorphic animals human genitalia/breasts and having them preform human sex positions is weird. That's what the phrase "furry porn" refers to in my mind. I'm sure I can make up terms for the other kinds of adult pictures out there that weird me out.

I'm not condemning "furry porn" or furries (actually, I think furries are pretty cool overall), it's just that "furry porn" is something I don't care for. If you do care for it, more power to you. I can respect "furry porn" and other adult pictures if you can respect my opinion that it weirds me out and I don't care for it. And don't take it as a personal attack if I do say it weirds me out, because it's just my opinion.

Man, this is an old thread. Pre-emptive note to anyone re-reading this, since it is so old, keep in mind that my own perspective on furries and their art has changed somewhat, and it's very likely that others' perspectives have too. Also, many people that replied to that thread are no longer active in the forums, so you might not get a response if you reply to any specific thing.

In any case, I've observed that taste in art, especially art of an erotic nature, is a very personal thing, and I'd hesitate to draw any firm conclusions about what ones taste in art says about the person in general.

A frustrating aspect of the whole furry debate thing is that whenever a movie or comic comes out with anthropomorphic animals (Fantastic Mr. Fox, Disney's Robin Hood, Redwall, the web comic Lackadaisy to name a few) the initial reaction is: FURRRRIIIEEESSS! That crowd is really annoying because the focus of the movie is put off. "You like that movie? You're a furry!" This to me is more off-putting and annoying than the actual furry crowd.

Wow, I can't believe someone found this fossil! This thread is so old, do you realize that when it was first posted, Marc Zuckerberg was still just another overprivileged Harvard student, bandwidth was still too slow to watch streaming videos longer than 30 seconds or higher than 240p and the world's cats had only just begun their campaign of turning the internet into a giant diabetes attack. It brings back nostalgia of what the internet used to be like... Back when geocities was still around, and the internet was still a "world wide web" full of individually crafted pages each giving its own unique perspective for those who took interest in it, instead of 3 giant wal-mart sites where everyone brainlessly farted all their time away.

Anyway, apart from the nostalgia of it, Simon is right, alot has changed, and yes, as have my viewpoints and likely those of others as well. I didn't really understand the furry thing at the time, I knew very little about it outside what I had heard about it from bad sensational media reporting of it, and from what odd splinters of information I could find on the subject at the time. Now I'd have no qualms about calling myself a furry, though I think labels like that are oversimplifying a very broad and complex range of interests, which can only be categorized together as commonly associated with an interest in fictional sentient nonhuman characters.

Now I'd have no qualms about calling myself a furry, though I think labels like that are oversimplifying a very broad and complex range of interests, which can only be categorized together as commonly associated with an interest in fictional sentient nonhuman characters.

Well, in that context, we're all furries on this forum.

Steven