About the Secret of NIMH

Live forum: http://www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=122

GrizzlyCoon

29-11-2004 21:56:33

I've always wondered a few things, but never bothered to ask about it... I know this forum is primarily about discussing issues related with the movie, and I wanted to ask a few questions regarding the movie and book as well.

1. Have you guys all read the book it is based upon, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH?

2. Which do you like better, the book or the movie?

3. Why do you think the story in the movie was so dramatically altered from the original story in the book?

4. Do you think the movie would have been better if it had remained more faithful to the book?

5. Why exactly is Nicodemus a wizard with magical powers in the movie, how did he become that way, and where did the stone come from? How does all that fit in with the plot about street rats genetically altered to be superintelligent?

I've heard that before Don Bluth left Disney, he first suggested to Disney the idea of making a movie based on Robert C. O'brien's novel Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH, but they turned the idea down because they didn't want to pay royalties to Robert C. O'brien's namesake. Bluth then called Disney 'saccharine trash' and left, going on to produce the movie himself as an independent director. This leads to my last and most interesting question about The Secret of NIMH:

6. What do you guys think the movie would have been like if Disney had agreed to produce it?

Simon

30-11-2004 09:19:22

I've always wondered a few things, but never bothered to ask about it... I know this forum is primarily about discussing issues related with the movie, and I wanted to ask a few questions regarding the movie and book as well.

Hey, there's no problem with discussing the book here as well. It's just that most people discuss the movie. I personally would enjoy more discussion on the book, myself.

1. Have you guys all read the book it is based upon, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH?

Yup. Quite a few times, actually.

2. Which do you like better, the book or the movie?

The book, definitely. The story is much richer, the character's are more developed, and I really like having the more full account of the story of the Rats of NIMH. Also, the use of the stone at the end of the movie, while impressive, struck me as something of a cop-out; to me it seemed like it was more a deus ex machina that saved the day than Mrs. Brisby. That said, I love the visual detail in the movie, and I admit that keeping Jenner around and making him a baddie was an interesting twist. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've kinda melded the story that I visualize in my mind into one, using the best parts of each story.

3. Why do you think the story in the movie was so dramatically altered from the original story in the book?

Ah, well, on this one we don't even have to guess. John Cawley, Bluth's former director of public relations wrote something of an article addressed to NIMH fans that was included in an old APAzine[=http://www.spies.com/~rawdon/sf/apas.html]APAzine called the NIMH File. Since just about everything in it is relevant to this question, I'm going to just link to it. See: http://www.thornvalley.com/library/articles/nimhnotes.php

4. Do you think the movie would have been better if it had remained more faithful to the book?

Maybe... While I know I said I liked the book better, there's a lot of considerations that go into the movie. I think they made the right decision with condensing Nicodemus's story; that would've been somewhat confusing to have it in the middle of Mrs. Brisby's story. (Incidentally, I think that story would make an excellent 'prequel', though.) I would've liked to see a bit more detail in their presentation of the colony and the Rats. The 'council' bit, while increasing the drama, doesn't really make sense in the context of the colony--the rats would be better served by the more democratic meetings they had in the book, I'd think. I do like the tweaking of Jenner and Jeremy's characters to be more villainous and comic, respectively. Nicodemus's death is an interesting twist to the story... I'm rambling, aren't I?

Truth to be told, I don't really know. I think that what would be the best is if they kept most of it as is, then added back additional elements from the book that fit within the story. Something like the Lord of the Rings Extended Editions, you might say.

5. Why exactly is Nicodemus a wizard with magical powers in the movie, how did he become that way, and where did the stone come from? How does all that fit in with the plot about street rats genetically altered to be superintelligent?

Within the scope of the story (in other words, discounting the external reasons that Bluth & Co. made the change), I don't really know. There are some fan-fics that (try to) explain this backstory, but as of yet none of them have rung true enough for me to agree with it entirely. I personally would've preferred that they find a way to do the story without having to resort to introducing magic.

I've heard that before Don Bluth left Disney, he first suggested to Disney the idea of making a movie based on Robert C. O'brien's novel Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH, but they turned the idea down because they didn't want to pay royalties to Robert C. O'brien's namesake. Bluth then called Disney 'saccharine trash' and left, going on to produce the movie himself as an independent director. This leads to my last and most interesting question about The Secret of NIMH:

6. What do you guys think the movie would have been like if Disney had agreed to produce it?

Worse. Almost certainly worse. By how much? I'm not sure. The films that Don worked on before he left Disney were Pete's Dragon, The Rescuers, and The Fox and the Hound (he left midway through the production of that one). While these movies are all decent ones in my mind (Pete's Dragon is debatable, tho), they don't hold a candle to NIMH where artistry and depth is concerned. It'd have been a sad day if the NIMH we know and love was reduced to something about the same quality as The Rescuers.

GrizzlyCoon

30-11-2004 14:23:11

Thanks for the response, Simon. I personally couldn't agree more with what you had to say. As I said before, I read the book in the fourth grade, and have been a total NIMH freak ever since. The movie is pretty good too, but the movie is never as good as the book in any case.

By the way, I don't know why this topic was posted twice on this forum. I think my incredibly slow computer must have loaded improperly, so I might have clicked to post it twice thinking it didn't work the first time. sorry about that.

You may delete the second unnecessary one.

GrizzlyCoon

11-01-2005 17:52:42

...Very dissapointing how few responses there were to this... I was SOOO interested in knowing what all of you think of the book, and about how you enjoy the book as with compared to the movie.

...I noticed that this forum seemed to die off and become kind of barren just after I posted this topic... It's not my fault, is it?

Please... I want to hear from all of you!

Simon

12-01-2005 16:47:36

Do I curse the threads I post in or something? ;) I've just noticed that a lot of times when I post a reply to a thread, sometimes the thread seems to suddenly stop. I wonder why that is? Anyway, I agree with you GrizzlyCoon, I'd love to hear more people's takes on this.

Whiskers57

12-01-2005 19:29:08

It`s not that guys, :) mostly it`s me I need to get in the habit of posting again after the holidays (I got lazy)

1.I first read the book about 10 years after I saw the movie (1996) and the second time I read the book is about 6 months ago when I bought the book on E-bay.

2.Since I only read the book two times and saw the movie maybe 100 times Im not sure which one I like the best.Tho I was amazed at how the book stuck to me after reading it twice 9 years apart. The book does a fine job of filling in the history of the rats starting with the "Marketplace" chap.and on thru to the"Boniface Estate"and also the "Toy Tinker" I wondered where they got their "tech" things from.

3.I`ve also read that article from the thorn valley library

4.There is a few things I would have liked to see in the movie different, one is brutis, in the movie its no questions asked he just started hacking away at Mrs Brisby. In the book he talks to Mrs Frisby and does not want to hurt someone as small as her.
But I`ve would also have loved to see in the movie is auntie shrew holding at bay 10 large rats. :lol:
but the movie also has a lot of good things in it as .

5.With the magic in the movie and not in the book plot I do`nt know how it fits in the plot of the rats story, that a good question and I`m stumped

6.If Disney let Don make the movie I think It would have been worse,Don would have been bound to the animation/storylines of what Disney had being making at that time.

I always like to if possible to read the books first before seeing the movies. Has anyone here in this forum read the book first and if so how did the characters seem the same or different than you drew up in your mind from reading the book first and then seeing the the movie?

Jam

13-01-2005 12:11:07

Yo!

Sorry I did'nt reply earlier but I was preoccupied with my Fan-Fic. :)
In answer to your questions:

1. Yes I do own and have read "Mrs Frisby and the Rats of NIMH". I saw the movie first and then when I heard there was a book I singned up on Amazon to buy a copy. Funny story, this was the first time I had bought something off of the Internet and I was very pleased with myself when I finished ordering (what I thought was) the book. :shock: When it came I found that I had ordered a teaching aid book for teachers to use with students who are studying the story as a piece of litature. This was soon recktified by my English teachter who said she would get me the right book if I give her the book I had for to use in the future.

I enjoyed the book and I have loaned it to otheers to read and each time it was returned it recieved nothing less then high praise. :D I then discovered that there were two other books. I now own "Racso and the Rats of NIMH" which I also enjoyed reading. I had been looking for the book for years eversince I read the first and I am now in the process orf finding the Third.

2. Hmmmm...Now this one is hard to say. I like both equaly but if I had to choose I would have to say that I liked the Book slightly better. My reasons for are as Simon said the book previded greater insight into characters and the rats of NIMH. Although the movie is wonderful and brings further illustrations to the characters.



L8tr!

Jam.

Martin Siedow

29-01-2005 07:57:44

Hello,
changing computer and software took some time but now I answer the questions:

1. I have read the german translation of "Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH" several times.

2. I donĀ“t like one any of them better than the other. This is my impression when I see them both as a whole. The book has surely greater detail, but it has not the visual and oral presentation of the story.

3. The article from the Thorn Valley Library answers that question.

4. I would doubt it. The movie would have less drama and comic relief and most would have found it boring. Additionally the climax of the book concerns only the rats directly, while the Frisby family has no own story climax.

5. Perhaps the goal was to show some of the rats in an evolutionary state beyond that of humankind and with more advanced technology. With his newfound capabilities Nicodemus created the stone and his viewing device as his own high-tech tools. The stone was a tool that Mrs. Brisby was able to use and that could be misused by Jenner. In our eyes such technology could be seen as magic while from Nicodemus viewpoint they are very complex and sophisticated machines, like a handheld supercomputer or scientific tricorder.

6. It might have been as good as it is (In the same time Disney produced "Tron" and I like that movie very much) but it could have also been worse (seen from the very high standard "The Secret of NIMH" has set).

Whiskers57

01-02-2005 05:49:49


6. It might have been as good as it is (In the same time Disney produced "Tron" and I like that movie very much) but it could have also been worse (seen from the very high standard "The Secret of NIMH" has set).


The high standard that Don Bluth set is most noticable when Disney started a few years later "The Little Mermaid" a much better story/animation than seen thru out the late 60`s and all of the 70`s of Disney`s work. I think Don rattled some cages there by his making of "The Secert of NIMH" and raised the bar up a bit.

leejakobson

03-02-2005 13:57:20

i ve read the entire mrs frisby andc rats of nimh copllection including rasco and the rats of nimh and r-t magret and the rats of nimh.

Whiskers57

03-02-2005 20:07:23

i ve read the entire mrs frisby andc rats of nimh copllection including rasco and the rats of nimh and r-t magret and the rats of nimh.


That`s great !! the one I have heard a lot about "on line" is Rasco and the Rats of NIMH I have not read it yet, but I think timothy runs in to this young rat on the way to school and have some adventures together but thats all I know. Another book I would like to read. :)

leejakobson

04-02-2005 08:51:59

:D yep thats true but last time i posted on the subject i got sent some kind of warning email why :lol: :lol: :lol:

GrizzlyCoon

10-02-2005 14:06:04

Whoah, what happened? It seems like the number of posting members just doubled, if not tripled! Only a few weeks ago we were getting hardly a post a month, and could have sworn this forum was about to die off, when suddenly an explosion of posts and activity occured. What happened?

I just want Hi to all the new members and posters at this forum and would like to ask you all if you would look at the questions I posted at the top of this page, I would love it if we could talk more about the books in here, as most conversation is now mainly just about either the movie or about traditional animation in general.

leejakobson

14-02-2005 17:04:31

2. movie
3. probably the producer felt that they were improving the story to better fit the film production setting.
4. maybe but it depends on what is changed.
5. no
6. SoN2 ring a bell
in the darkest of nights you may find your way as soon as you learn how to turn on the light

mal

15-02-2005 05:46:32

1. Yep.

2. The movie.

3. Well, let's face it, most animated movies thrive on some sense of mystery and magic. I think it only added to the storyline's mystique.

4. Actually, I do not think it would. In the book there is no real antagonist apart from the looming dread of NIMH. Jenner was already dead and actually mourned for. Most movies rely on a captivating antagonist or threat to heighten the sense of conflict for the protagonists.

5. Who can tell? And that in itself is one of the things which make the movie so fascinating. A good story leaves things to ponder and build upon.

6. I do not even want to consider what a Disney version of the original movie would have looked like. NIMH 2 was bad enough.

Cheers!

mal

Tzolkin

13-03-2005 02:39:40

1. Have you guys all read the book it is based upon, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH?

Yep, all three of them.

2. Which do you like better, the book or the movie?

Well I like them both about equally, but for different reasons. I tend to lean more towards the book in regards to plot and storyline, but more towards the movie in regard to the overall look and feel the story. (Does that make any sense at all?)

3. Why do you think the story in the movie was so dramatically altered from the original story in the book?

Probably to make the story fit in an hour 1/2 film, and to show more special effects. And not to mention the movie was meant to appeal to older viewers.

4. Do you think the movie would have been better if it had remained more faithful to the book?

It'd have been longer, that's for sure, though definately not enough action to keep some people's attention. Sort of like Titanic I guess. So, no, I don't think the movie would have been improved much if they were more faithful to the book, though I for one would've still enjoyed watching it if they had.

5. Why exactly is Nicodemus a wizard with magical powers in the movie, how did he become that way, and where did the stone come from? How does all that fit in with the plot about street rats genetically altered to be superintelligent?

I have no idea, unless you throw in a little conspiracy theory somewhere. That's what makes scifi cool though. You don't know how they do most of the stuff they do, so it all looks like magic. :wink:

6. What do you guys think the movie would have been like if Disney had agreed to produce it?

One word... Boring! When I think disney, I think 'cute' little forest creatures hopping around singing 'mary had a little lamb' or something of that nature. I wouldn't want to see NIMH become like that... oops too late forgot about that stupid sequel. Oh well... grrr. :x

--Tzolkin
ﺶﺞﻚﷲ

HolyArrow

08-06-2005 08:25:49

Bluth then called Disney 'saccharine trash'


Hmm, shocking...

Anyway, here are my answers to each question...

1. Yes I have read it and I am actually re-reading it now. (But to be honest, I was paying no attention to the book and barely know what the differences are. So I prefer saying that this is my first time reading the novel...)

2. I like both. The book has a lot more facts in it (About Jonathan, NIMH, etc), but thinking of plot, the movie is better.

3. I really have no idea why. But You know how novels are changed in the movies... But I was really surprised by the difference of the images of the characters. When I saw the movie in class, I was like "That's Mrs. Frisby?" "That's Nicodemus?" "That's Mr. Ages?" stuff like that. This is what a classmate actually said (Using memory and I should actually be giving credit to the classmate who said this... I apologize.)

"In the book Mrs. Frisby's really a mother type character and has the image of about 40 years old. But in the movie Mrs. Brisby's like 20."

4. Actually, if they made the novel into the movie completely, it would have not been a good one. Putting more darkness and magic in it is better.

5. I don't know. The Amulet, Nicodemus said, "Johnathan meant it for you." I believe the amulet didn't have to do with Nicodemus that much. All he did was kept it and gave it to Mrs. Brisby. Nicodemus got the magic somewhere probably between NIMH and the Rosebush. But I think that the intelligence of the rats have nothing to do with the magic.

6. My view for The Secret of NIMH would have been a greater one than now. To be honest, I still have some trouble admitting that I am a big fan of a non-Disney movie. If it were a Disney movie, I would have liked it more... (Which is actually something terrible to do 'cause of the fact that I am automatically trying to enjoy movies by the company it comes from...) Now for the movie itself, it would have been less darker. There would have been no bleeding of Mrs. Brisby, Justin, Sullivan, or Jenner. I think the movie wouldn't have used magic to solve the main conflict of the movie. Therefore, the stone would have not been in the movie. Dragon would have been a more believable cat. I think the Disney would have changed the movie in their own way, but not making it magical.

The Secret of NIMH is a very heavy movie in the first place. The duel, the tractor, Dragon, Nicodemus, Jenner, all of the things and characters that I said would have been a lot more "mild."

Simon

08-06-2005 14:21:12

To be honest, I still have some trouble admitting that I am a big fan of a non-Disney movie. If it were a Disney movie, I would have liked it more...

ligaspli Blasphemy! ;)

HolyArrow

08-06-2005 15:01:51

ligaspli Blasphemy! ;)


Well, I know. It's not good. But Simon, nobody ever going to understand how large the word "Disney" was (and is) to me. Well, it's not like this is the only non-Disney movie I like, I like "An American Tail," (Rescuers, NIHH, American Tail, guess there connection. There's two that I have in mind...:lol: ), but you know, for people who believed in something large for a long time, when something new gets caught in his/her head and it's not in the genre of the belief (Belief I say but I don't mean religion...), it's hard to catch it. Hey that and plus other reasons, I had a very, very, very hard time admitting that I am a NIMH fan...

But I'd like to say that as A MOVIE, NIMH is one of the best, (I like the Rescuers mainly because Bernard and Bianca are in it...)

:wink:

Matthias

26-06-2005 15:08:47

Some of these questions have already been answered quite adequetely, so I'll just skip them. Still, I do have some answers of my own.

1. Have you guys all read the book it is based upon, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH?


I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't :) (I also read the first half of Racso. I wasn't able to finish it, though - perhaps in the future).

2. Which do you like better, the book or the movie?


Personally, I tend to meld the two together in my mind, using the book as a base and filling the gaps with details from the book, similar to what Simon has said. That way, I get to have a deluxe package of SoN's fantastic visuals and inspiring presentation and the book's character development and plot progression (though there was plenty of that in the movie as well).

3. Why do you think the story in the movie was so dramatically altered from the original story in the book?


People have said this already, but I thought I'd restate it in my own words. The alterations have much to do with the conventions of the medium (much like Shakespeare had to adapt his plays to suit the conventions of Elizabethan drama). Books are generally very detail-oriented; they tell the story using images made from description and exposition with written language. Movies, on the other hand, are by nature visual productions, relying on movement and action to advance the story. Changes, therefore, had to be made to the original storyline in order to make it conform to the movie medium. Conversations were slimmed down, more action was added such as the tractor and duel scenes, and characters were presented more explicitly, with more emphasis on their various quirks (some only marginlly related to the originals).

The movie isn't just an more colourful, fast-paced version of the book, but is also a means of interpreting the book's themes. The greater emphasis placed on Mrs. Brisby's (Mrs. Frisby in the book) story serves to likewise place an emphasis on the theme surrounding her story, that is, the motherly love is has for her family and the strength and courage that she, as a good mother, must possess in order to succeed. This was actually only a secondary element in the original story, where greater emphasis was placed on the rat's story and its theme. Still, this shift in focus probably reflects the intention of Bluth and his team; they probably found something particularly inspring (as I'm sure many of you have) about Mrs. Frisby's sense of maternal duty and her strong sentiment of sacrificial love. The rats and their story still plays a major part, of course, but their view of things is more or less used to complement and supplement the primary theme that arises from Mrs. Brisby's experiences.

There are also dramatics to consider, the "spicing up," if you will, of the plot and characters in order to better utilize the tools of the medium. Characters such as Jeremy and Justin are given a makeover in this regard; their personalities are exaggerated and changed, yet in such a way as to complement their characters and to contribute to the overall feeling of the film. The use of Jenner as the scheming antagonist also brought about this general effect, as was the protrayal of Dragon as a demonic, savage entity, much more violent and hideous than in the book. There was also the portrayal of Nicodemus as a powerful 'wizard' to add an element of mystery and fantasy to the story (the Stone functions the same way). The rats in general (plus some other characters like the Brisby children) are given a more anthropomorphic feel and design in order to appeal to our visual senses, aesthetic or otherwise.

4. Do you think the movie would have been better if it had remained more faithful to the book?


Not necessarily. As I have mentioned before, too close an adaptation to the book would have left the story somewhat dry. However, that said, there are certain elements from the book which they could have used to flesh out the plot. They could have given Timothy more screen time (and some more lines, for that matter) in order to evince his sense of quiet courage even in the face of death. They could have given us some more details concerning the rats and their daily life in the colony (perhaps even showing us some rat children). Also, they could have fleshed out Nicodemus' story with a bit more detail, especially concerning their stay at NIMH. Another aspect which I felt could have been included (and which I missed from the book) was the character of Isabella. Despite her minor role in the original story, I felt that having just a brief scene with her would have served to supplement our view of the rats and provided us with a definite female presence in the colony (the only other women in the colony appear as council members in the background). Plus, it would have also supplemented Justin's character, if you know what I mean ;)

5. Why exactly is Nicodemus a wizard with magical powers in the movie, how did he become that way, and where did the stone come from? How does all that fit in with the plot about street rats genetically altered to be superintelligent?


Aside from what I've already said concerning adaptation, there are several different ways to approach this intriguing question. One speculation involves the nature of the NIMH treatments (recall Christopher Silva's Children of NIMH story, which deals with this side of the question); we know that it made them smarter and physically stronger/bigger, but was that all it did? Did the formula have other effects as well? In this case, the hidden abilties given to them by NIMH was made manifest in the Stone, which seems to have been fashioned by Nicodemus, if he did do such a thing.

Another hypothesis would involve Jonathan's hidden heritage (someone else mentioned this on NIMHMuck...you know who you are ;)). Nicodemus mentions that Jonathan meant to give it to Mrs. Brisby, implying that he is the primary owner and that Nicodemus was only its keeper (I could be wrong, of course). If this is the case, then what other secrets does Jonathan have? How much of a 'normal' mouse was he before he was taken to NIMH? Are there others like him? Questions...

Still another supposition rests on the "found-it-on-the-way" assumption. The rats (and the two mice) may have just stumbled across the Stone during their journey and found amongst themselves some who would put it to the best use (Nicodemus and Jonathan). This may seem rather prosaic, but think about this; where did the Stone come from, then? Is it some rare mineral/element that can be found in the Earth, or is it something manufactured? What is the source of the Stone's abilities? What if it didn't come from Earth but...someplace else? (Recall HMS Eagle's The Stone Master, except maybe without the aliens :) It also deals with another question; if Mrs. Brisby and the other 'normal' animals are, well, normal, then since when could they communicate like that? Plus, Mrs. Brisby seems to have been married to Jonathan for a while now...longer than she ought to...)

From a more technical standpoint, the portrayal of Nicodemus as a 'wizard' probably comes from the presentation of the film as a fantasy tale, reaped in swords, sorcery (though that latter element is dealt with very subtlely), and wonder. Still, because of the science fiction element, one cannot really call it 'sorcery' as we usually define the term. As I mentioned before, the NIMH treatment may have given the rats the ability to detect something above the level of normal animals and humans, something that permeates the atmosphere of the world, waiting to be discovered and utilized, whether for good or ill...

The first person to talk about the "Force" gets bopped in the head :P


What do you know? It looks like I answered most of the questions after all :) Well, enjoy my ramblings, and till next time...

Frisby23

14-04-2006 22:16:54

I've always wondered a few things, but never bothered to ask about it... I know this forum is primarily about discussing issues related with the movie, and I wanted to ask a few questions regarding the movie and book as well.

1. Have you guys all read the book it is based upon, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH?

2. Which do you like better, the book or the movie?

3. Why do you think the story in the movie was so dramatically altered from the original story in the book?

4. Do you think the movie would have been better if it had remained more faithful to the book?

5. Why exactly is Nicodemus a wizard with magical powers in the movie, how did he become that way, and where did the stone come from? How does all that fit in with the plot about street rats genetically altered to be superintelligent?

I've heard that before Don Bluth left Disney, he first suggested to Disney the idea of making a movie based on Robert C. O'brien's novel Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH, but they turned the idea down because they didn't want to pay royalties to Robert C. O'brien's namesake. Bluth then called Disney 'saccharine trash' and left, going on to produce the movie himself as an independent director. This leads to my last and most interesting question about The Secret of NIMH:

6. What do you guys think the movie would have been like if Disney had agreed to produce it?


1. Yes, many times. I just read the second one too and am starting on the third

2. The book

3. Not sure. I can't even figure out why they changed Mrs. Frisby's name

4. maybe

5. Not sure

6. Don't know, some Disney films are way better than others

Slew724

16-04-2006 09:01:38

My answers:

1. I've read all the books.

2. I like the movie better from a visual standpoint, but the book does have more detail about Mrs. Frisby's problems and what happened with the Rats at NIMH and afterwards.

3. I would say for time reasons. We know it's anything but a kids' movie, but Don Bluth must have known the audience would mainly be children, so he couldn't make it too long. I'd watch a scene-by-scene duplicate of the book myself, even if it were 4 hours long.

4. I think it would have. But again, knowing that the primary audience would be young, the action like the sword fights had to be in there.

5. I'm guessing the NIMH experiments awakened certain powers in some of the rats, like when they say we only use 10% of our brains. As for the stone, I think Nicodemus must have created it somehow to protect the colony. He knew it could also be used for personal gain, which was of course why he feared Jenner getting it. It is funny how he told Mrs. Brisby that "Jonathan meant it for you." when he seemed to be the owner of it. Who knows?

6. Well, based on the formula Disney has been using, we'd no doubt have a lot more songs and at least one sidekick as comic relief. Although Jeremy could be considered comic relief, Disney movies usually have more than one (Timon and Pumbaa for example.) They might even have made it like Toy Story. Having recently seen Chicken Little, I would say that Disney can do computer animated animal characters well. But who knows what NIMH would have looked like that way. We can only speculate and debate, and that's part of the fun.

Tortillian

17-04-2006 08:08:45

1. Yes.

2. I like the book leaps and bounds more than the movie adaptation "The Secret of NIMH." I haven't read the books by O'Brien's daughter, but I'm contemplating it.

3. Appeal to a younger audience...? I'm not entirely sure, to be truthful. Maybe because the fantastic has a better appeal when applied to animation than science-fiction stuff.

4. It would certainly have been interesting, and I would have liked it more, but I won't slight it either way as I can see how the alternative to it's current story-line has the potential of being horribly done. I think it's just Don Bluth who has more experience with the magical connotations.

5. Not a clue, but that bothered me more than any other aspect of the movie. The characters were so far off from the book that they almost weren't worth giving the same names.

6. Once again, it has the potential for having been great, but it would have been very different I'm sure. No slight either way.

Megan_L

17-04-2006 17:49:06

1. Have you guys all read the book it is based upon, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH?

Of course! And the sequels. "Racso and the Rats of NIMH" was all right, but I despised the third book. To my mind, it doesn't exist.

2. Which do you like better, the book or the movie?

The movie. The movie. No, wait, the book. Or the movie. Oh, I can't decide. I love both--the book for its wonderful characters and great writing, or the movie for its drop-dead gorgeous animation and equally--though differently--compelling characters.

3. Why do you think the story in the movie was so dramatically altered from the original story in the book?

My guess would be to make it more exciting and suspenseful. Not that the book wasn't, but there are always changes made to books. You learn to expect that. The funny thing is, in spite of all the changes made, the one that caught me totally off guard (no pun intended) was the flirtation between Justin and Mrs. Brisby. No, I'm not kidding. I wish I were.

4. Do you think the movie would have been better if it had remained more faithful to the book?

Good question. I think they could have included some more characters from the book (licoughISABELLAcoughli), especially female. We didn't see many female rats in the movie, and none of them spoke. NOT ONE. Also, I kind of wish they'd lost the magic angle. It's so hard to explain in fan fiction! (Again, not kidding.)

5. Why exactly is Nicodemus a wizard with magical powers in the movie, how did he become that way, and where did the stone come from? How does all that fit in with the plot about street rats genetically altered to be superintelligent?

Beats the hell out of me. Maybe he's a graduate of Hogwarts and a friend of Nicolas Flamel's?

lisnerkli Sorry. Had to say it. I'm a total Harry Potter geek.

Seriously...I'm guessing the injections had a lot to do with it. Though why the rats don't all have those powers is beyond me. Where'd the Stone come from? No freakin' clue. Like I said, these things are incredibly hard to explain in fan fiction.

--Meg

Tod

18-04-2006 10:41:13

1.) I've read all the books. The first is the best, by far. The second is o-kaay, although I wish it would have had more of the original characters in it. The third is...well... yeah, I didn't really get the third one.

2.) I like both book and movie. I think this is a shining example of how both can be excellent, tell the same story in different ways, and still make sense. Of course I've watched the movie at least a hundred times more than i've read the book, but that's just a time issue.

3.) Okay, for anyone who's never read a book, then watched the movie let me explain. It is a RARETY in Hollywood that the book and movie are the same, or even close. Matter of fact, I think the only one know of that IS like that is The Godfather, the first one anyway. A couple OTHER examples of books and their movies being changed are: Jurassic Park (both were good), and The Fox and The Hound (Talk about a radical difference). In short, if you try and make a movie verbatum off the book, chances are you're going to have a long, drawn out story with a lot of little stuff that the audience really doesn't need to know. That, and movies are generally more action and visual oriented than books are. That's my take on things, anyway.

4.) There's a few things in the book I would have liked to have seen in the movie, such as a little more on the rosebush or the rats, but I honestly think those are just personal quips. In all honesty, I think BOTH book and movie could have benefitted from a little more elaboration on Jonathan Brisby, seeing as how he's the one who brought this whole thing together, despite being 'dead' in both stories.

5.) Hollywood. Pure Hollywood. You want little kids to watch a movie, give them something to fascinate them. They will love it. I don't think explainations really need to be made here. If they were, then you'd have to explain movies like Fantasia, which is beyond comprehension for me. Besides, it makes the story just that much more fun and gives it a visual flare otherwise not found.

6.) Definitally would have been watered down, that's for sure. I honestly don't think it would have been any better if Disney had done it. Bluth did a heck of a job making The Secret of NIMH, and I fear that if Disney would have done it, it would have been soft, cushy, and soon forgotten. I mean, admit it, during that time period, Disney did a lot of films that are not considered among thier best, although many are MY favorites. (Sorry, The Fox and the Hound is one of my favorites, and not just because it has to do with foxes, although that's a big part of it.)

awash2002

18-04-2006 16:33:58

i would have to say the movie both of them the first and the second one

shivermetimbers

19-08-2011 17:18:52

1. Have you guys all read the book it is based upon, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH?
Yup.

2. Which do you like better, the book or the movie?

The book by a mile. It had more back-story and better developed characters. Mrs. Frisby is a brave no-nonsense heroine and is much more likeable than Mrs. Brisby, though both characters are great. Making Mrs. Brisby timid was just a way to make a cliched story about the fearful turning fearless. It probably also shows that Jonathan spoiled her rotten (as pointed out in many fanfictions).

3. Why do you think the story in the movie was so dramatically altered from the original story in the book?

See my answer above.
4. Do you think the movie would have been better if it had remained more faithful to the book?

Probably, but it would be less interesting to look at.
5. Why exactly is Nicodemus a wizard with magical powers in the movie, how did he become that way, and where did the stone come from? How does all that fit in with the plot about street rats genetically altered to be superintelligent?

Jonathan probably had something to do with the stone. Maybe it was a gift from Nicodemus to Jonathan who told him to hold on to it and give it to whomever he feels needs it. As for why they did this, see my answer above.


6. What do you guys think the movie would have been like if Disney had agreed to produce it?

It wouldn't exist because it would've been considered too dark.

Pennsylvania Jones

06-09-2011 16:18:20

I think that what would be the best is if they kept most of it as is, then added back additional elements from the book that fit within the story. Something like the Lord of the Rings Extended Editions, you might say.


Or the Star Wars Special Editions...
http://students.cis.uab.edu/bmcgough/labs/jabba3.jpg[" alt=""/img]

Not as likely, though.

Anyway...

1. I've read the entire trilogy. Racso is my favorite.
2. The movie, when comparing Secret of NIMH with Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH. For the sequels, the books are better than the direct-to-video crap that doesn't deserve the name Secret of NIMH 2. Come to think of it, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH is more detailed, and explains things from the movie I didn't really get, like what "the lee of the stone" meant.
3. Because that's Hollywood for you.
4. They could extend it to be more faithful to the book, but they should also keep the Original Theatrical version around. "They must preserve the Original Theatrical version or other franchises will suffer the same fate as Star Wars." -Ben Kenobi, paraphrased
5. I like to think of the entire "magic" aspect of Secret of NIMH from a spiritual point of view. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. In the case of Secret of NIMH, the Great Owl represents God the Father, because he's a figure of power that you'd want to respect. Nicodemus is God the Son, because according to Don Bluth's commentary, the Owl and Nicodemus are hinted to be one and the same. So Nicodemus is essentially The Owl, taking a more familiar, friendly form to speak to Mrs. Brisby on the same level that she's on. God the Holy Spirit? The Stone. The Stone acted through Mrs. Brisby at the end of the movie to help her solve her problem, like how The Holy Spirit acts through us to accomplish His will. Religious discussion ends here.
6. If you throw in a few songs in just the right places, that may be how Disney would've done it.

Steven